WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.399 --> 00:00:00.690 Hi. 2 00:00:00.695 --> 00:00:02.689 Well, welcome to the New Media Show. 3 00:00:02.739 --> 00:00:07.834 The question and the topic tonight is, can creators still build trust in 4 00:00:07.834 --> 00:00:10.097 the AI era that we're in right now? 5 00:00:10.431 --> 00:00:15.164 And I know I talk about AI a lot on this show, and we're gonna continue to do that, 6 00:00:15.174 --> 00:00:20.267 but there's gonna be a l- a little bit of a twist here, 'cause if AI can make a 7 00:00:20.268 --> 00:00:25.530 message sound more personal, which it will at some point, I think, uh, it's gonna 8 00:00:25.531 --> 00:00:30.831 be hard to distinguish between AI content and, real human content at some point. 9 00:00:30.844 --> 00:00:36.763 Hopefully, if the humans get good enough to compete and video will look polished. 10 00:00:37.163 --> 00:00:42.782 And what earns a creator real trust from its audience is the big question. 11 00:00:42.806 --> 00:00:48.782 I'm, I'm Rob Greenlee, and really the big question is, as content becomes easier 12 00:00:48.784 --> 00:00:53.505 to produce, what makes a creator worth trusting, following and supporting? 13 00:00:53.822 --> 00:00:58.854 So AI and human expertise, credible relationships, and a possible 14 00:00:58.863 --> 00:01:04.467 future for fan-created shows is what I wanna talk about too. 15 00:01:04.813 --> 00:01:09.762 So and then we'll also finish with a practical creator action at the end. 16 00:01:09.762 --> 00:01:13.265 So stay with me, and let's get into it. 17 00:01:13.823 --> 00:01:16.702 Welcome to the New Media Show with human host and 18 00:01:16.712 --> 00:01:19.586 podcast hall-of-famer, Rob Greenlee. 19 00:01:33.356 --> 00:01:36.063 Well, thank you for being here. 20 00:01:36.485 --> 00:01:41.408 I wanted to just mention here before I bring up my guest, uh, Yuri Kleban 21 00:01:41.474 --> 00:01:44.278 who's gonna join me, but I wanted to mention that there's some new 22 00:01:44.307 --> 00:01:47.091 things on the newmediashow.com 23 00:01:47.107 --> 00:01:53.630 website, and one is a show supporter a membership area, and it's offering 24 00:01:53.641 --> 00:01:58.786 in-show visibility, mentions, and focused consulting with me 25 00:01:59.215 --> 00:02:05.530 bundled together, and it is now open at newmediashow.com/support, 26 00:02:06.522 --> 00:02:11.843 with, uh, various, , membership levels, and I also have a newsletter in there too. 27 00:02:11.843 --> 00:02:13.936 So, so go check it out. 28 00:02:13.954 --> 00:02:15.375 Go to, um… 29 00:02:15.427 --> 00:02:17.259 Let me pull it up on the screen here. 30 00:02:17.584 --> 00:02:22.072 Uh, this is where it's at, if you wanted to go check it out, and then also check 31 00:02:22.079 --> 00:02:25.292 out the new website at newmediashow.com. 32 00:02:25.295 --> 00:02:31.146 I've been working r- really, really hard to build an entire platform with that, um, 33 00:02:31.156 --> 00:02:37.516 w- with that website that offers a lot of deeper content, as well as, uh, this whole 34 00:02:37.531 --> 00:02:39.604 membership area that I'm trying to launch. 35 00:02:39.605 --> 00:02:41.805 So everybody's into monetization now. 36 00:02:41.808 --> 00:02:46.758 So this show has been around for most of its life, uh, without any kind of 37 00:02:46.758 --> 00:02:51.027 advertising or monetization or what- whatever, and, and so it just feels like 38 00:02:51.029 --> 00:02:54.927 if I'm gonna keep up with the trends, I've gotta offer something in here that 39 00:02:54.929 --> 00:02:59.171 actually shows that I'm keeping up with what everybody's interested in now, and 40 00:02:59.171 --> 00:03:01.706 that's monetizing their, their show. 41 00:03:01.731 --> 00:03:03.964 So let's get into the show. 42 00:03:03.969 --> 00:03:05.401 I've got a terrific guest with me. 43 00:03:05.401 --> 00:03:11.808 I'm gonna pull him up on the stage here, and, uh, his name is Yuri Kleban, and 44 00:03:11.819 --> 00:03:18.454 he's the Global Product Lead Manager in the partnerships area at, uh, at Google, 45 00:03:18.900 --> 00:03:24.912 and his background spans product, cloud, advertising, partnerships, and his posts 46 00:03:24.953 --> 00:03:28.248 explore AI, human work, and relationships. 47 00:03:28.263 --> 00:03:31.229 Yuri, it's great to have you on the, on the New Media Show. 48 00:03:31.727 --> 00:03:33.129 Hey, thanks so much for having me. 49 00:03:33.130 --> 00:03:34.036 This is exciting. 50 00:03:34.038 --> 00:03:35.145 I'm gonna, I try to… 51 00:03:35.437 --> 00:03:38.173 You know, I know you're supposed to ask me questions, but I probably have 52 00:03:38.174 --> 00:03:39.915 too many questions to ask you already. 53 00:03:40.116 --> 00:03:41.171 Oh, no, this is a… 54 00:03:41.207 --> 00:03:43.348 Th- this show's a total conversation. 55 00:03:43.348 --> 00:03:47.622 It's not a, it's not a one-way pathway for the, the, the topics here. 56 00:03:47.949 --> 00:03:52.623 But I do wanna ask you, just to kinda get started here, is what has changed 57 00:03:52.627 --> 00:03:57.977 your own thinking most about AI and, uh, and humans and people at this point? 58 00:03:58.377 --> 00:03:59.286 I mean, that's a great question. 59 00:03:59.317 --> 00:04:03.605 I remember, again, my background being at Google, you're kind of at the belly of 60 00:04:03.605 --> 00:04:07.446 the beast, and, in my organization we work with a lot of the execs in Alphabet, so- 61 00:04:07.594 --> 00:04:07.792 Yeah 62 00:04:07.828 --> 00:04:10.338 I get to hear a lot, so I'm not gonna reveal anything, sorry 63 00:04:10.485 --> 00:04:13.128 audience- It's okay … but everything you're hearing, you could find this. 64 00:04:13.134 --> 00:04:18.587 But you- Most people remember the moment, you know, they, they tried ChatGPT, 65 00:04:18.972 --> 00:04:21.940 and I think there was like a, a two-way street that happened, if you remember. 66 00:04:21.940 --> 00:04:26.208 Like, they were kinda like, "Oh wow, this is amazing. 67 00:04:26.608 --> 00:04:29.255 It's not perfect right now, but I know where this is going," right? 68 00:04:29.255 --> 00:04:32.649 Like, people right away could tell where this is going, where AI is gonna do. 69 00:04:33.043 --> 00:04:35.606 And then I remember other people are like, "Yeah, this is like 70 00:04:35.608 --> 00:04:37.917 a, like a hacky thing, you know? 71 00:04:37.918 --> 00:04:38.996 Like, who cares? 72 00:04:39.246 --> 00:04:40.680 What, what's gonna happen?" 73 00:04:41.080 --> 00:04:45.382 And so I think what changed right away is we went from everyone having 74 00:04:45.383 --> 00:04:49.908 their own doors to now, like, talk to anybody, they'll say, "Oh no, AI," 75 00:04:49.937 --> 00:04:53.260 like, whether they like it or not, like it's affecting or there's… 76 00:04:53.488 --> 00:04:54.779 It is doing something. 77 00:04:54.780 --> 00:04:56.021 So people have heard about it. 78 00:04:56.326 --> 00:04:57.174 It's famous. 79 00:04:57.574 --> 00:04:59.029 And so it's… 80 00:04:59.126 --> 00:05:00.107 What's the best way to put it? 81 00:05:00.359 --> 00:05:05.563 We let it out of the, the genie box or the lamp, and it's theref- it's all around us. 82 00:05:05.617 --> 00:05:08.346 And so I think, and we'll get to the good, the bad and the ugly and 83 00:05:08.346 --> 00:05:12.617 the, and the nice, but my point is that- I, what has changed is like 84 00:05:12.633 --> 00:05:15.079 it, it has augmented the way we work. 85 00:05:15.268 --> 00:05:19.218 Like my work at Google, my work outside- Mm-hmm … with startups, my family, 86 00:05:19.221 --> 00:05:23.220 I have three young children, so like using AI to help my productivity. 87 00:05:23.620 --> 00:05:27.524 It has changed it so much that I cannot go back. 88 00:05:27.541 --> 00:05:30.397 The, the way I like to tell people is I know Rob you're too young 89 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.260 to remember this, but back in the day we were on 56K modem, which 90 00:05:33.261 --> 00:05:35.382 is the slow internet, the dial-up. 91 00:05:35.748 --> 00:05:36.894 Uh, this was my era. 92 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:40.772 And then you got the DSL and the high speed, and you're like, "I am 93 00:05:40.772 --> 00:05:43.086 never going back to that slow world." 94 00:05:43.323 --> 00:05:45.819 And I think that's what AI has done for most people. 95 00:05:46.083 --> 00:05:46.408 Forget… 96 00:05:46.424 --> 00:05:50.526 Again, without the risks, like most people who are just using it for their 97 00:05:50.527 --> 00:05:54.582 entertainment, for work, they just like are clearly seeing this is the future. 98 00:05:54.582 --> 00:05:58.799 They already are, and you kind of, you can't take it away from them. 99 00:05:58.850 --> 00:05:59.770 Does that make sense? 100 00:06:00.170 --> 00:06:04.633 Yeah, I can, I can kind of have the, this analogy. 101 00:06:04.856 --> 00:06:07.711 Here, let me put up a different, uh, screen here. 102 00:06:07.723 --> 00:06:08.520 Hang on here. 103 00:06:08.662 --> 00:06:09.099 Okay. 104 00:06:09.499 --> 00:06:10.929 Yeah, I've got an electric car. 105 00:06:10.929 --> 00:06:15.796 I drive a Tesla, and it's got the full self-driving software, and that's 106 00:06:16.016 --> 00:06:20.819 built on AI and, and it's, um, it's one of those things I was watching 107 00:06:20.821 --> 00:06:24.989 a YouTube v- video here and people were saying, "W- once you've had one 108 00:06:24.989 --> 00:06:28.881 of these cars and you've had full self-driving, you really can't go back." 109 00:06:29.281 --> 00:06:29.801 That's right. 110 00:06:30.068 --> 00:06:32.941 And that's kind of, that's a good analogy for what's 111 00:06:32.941 --> 00:06:34.204 happening with AI right now. 112 00:06:34.207 --> 00:06:37.804 I think a lot of people that are fully engaged with it can 113 00:06:37.804 --> 00:06:39.934 really see the value of it and… 114 00:06:40.355 --> 00:06:45.978 But it is also I've learned that it's very human directed currently right now. 115 00:06:45.978 --> 00:06:50.072 And that's not to say that it will always be 100% human directed because 116 00:06:50.074 --> 00:06:54.661 I can I can sense that it's wanting to, you know, take over more and take 117 00:06:54.662 --> 00:06:56.348 more off my plate and things like that. 118 00:06:56.348 --> 00:07:01.840 It's actively prompting me to, to enable it to take on more, right? 119 00:07:02.267 --> 00:07:06.879 And it's an interesting kind of direction that it, it pushes you towards, and 120 00:07:06.880 --> 00:07:08.932 it doesn't push you towards less work. 121 00:07:08.984 --> 00:07:11.989 It actually as a human it pushes you towards more work, 122 00:07:12.477 --> 00:07:14.075 uh, is my experience with it. 123 00:07:14.075 --> 00:07:14.221 Yeah. 124 00:07:14.405 --> 00:07:18.193 'Cause I get really kind of, you know- Your ambitions get really 125 00:07:18.193 --> 00:07:24.367 high for what you can do and that drives you into engaging with it 126 00:07:24.368 --> 00:07:26.020 more and working with it more. 127 00:07:26.020 --> 00:07:30.963 And I can see where the, the usage of AI is just gonna explode because people are 128 00:07:30.965 --> 00:07:33.105 g- gonna feel empowered by this thing. 129 00:07:33.109 --> 00:07:37.260 But really, I think to kind of dovetail on what you were just talking about 130 00:07:37.260 --> 00:07:42.141 is, you know, what earns human trust out there, though, as we move into 131 00:07:42.142 --> 00:07:45.290 this era of AI doing more for us? 132 00:07:45.507 --> 00:07:49.182 And th- this is the big goal that I have with the Trust Factor Lab that I'm working 133 00:07:49.184 --> 00:07:55.869 on is, is trying to identify what those key human elements are that drive trust. 134 00:07:55.907 --> 00:07:59.947 And trust is a term w- like we were just saying b- before the show 135 00:07:59.948 --> 00:08:02.666 started, that, you know, that's like the number one issue right now. 136 00:08:02.698 --> 00:08:05.929 You know, the whole midterms election I think was… 137 00:08:06.329 --> 00:08:09.731 had the outcome that it did because of a erosion of trust. 138 00:08:09.854 --> 00:08:09.868 Yeah. 139 00:08:09.868 --> 00:08:13.639 And people didn't say what they, or didn't do what they said they 140 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:18.187 were gonna do, and that's one of the core tenets of trust, right? 141 00:08:18.189 --> 00:08:23.272 Is, is follow through and doing what you say you're gonna do and, you know, 142 00:08:23.290 --> 00:08:27.770 being reliable, being honest being straightforward with it, and so much about 143 00:08:27.770 --> 00:08:30.509 our world right now is just not honest. 144 00:08:30.909 --> 00:08:32.849 But what's your thought about what… 145 00:08:32.958 --> 00:08:36.229 I mean, is it the same thing that, that I just said is what 146 00:08:36.247 --> 00:08:37.780 you think builds human trust? 147 00:08:38.225 --> 00:08:40.536 Yeah, I mean, to build off of it, and I agree with 148 00:08:40.536 --> 00:08:45.224 that, is Like I, I created this automation at work that's like a bot. 149 00:08:45.231 --> 00:08:47.485 Like let's say, Rob, you're my manager, you'll message me, "Yuri, 150 00:08:47.485 --> 00:08:48.918 what's the latest on this product? 151 00:08:48.918 --> 00:08:50.420 Like is someone gonna get it?" 152 00:08:50.421 --> 00:08:51.188 Or whatever, right? 153 00:08:51.584 --> 00:08:53.958 And I realize I'm getting a lot of messages. 154 00:08:53.958 --> 00:08:57.516 I don't have enough time, so I build a bot that uses my own knowledge and then 155 00:08:57.527 --> 00:08:59.996 messages you know, different team members. 156 00:09:00.396 --> 00:09:01.992 And I realized that they… 157 00:09:02.185 --> 00:09:03.930 A lot of people didn't like it. 158 00:09:04.280 --> 00:09:07.629 You know, not only did it say it's from Yuri's bot or whatever, 'cause I, I, 159 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:12.628 you know, I like to reveal the truth, but, you know, it's not human as much. 160 00:09:12.630 --> 00:09:14.450 They would say, "It doesn't sound like you, Yuri." 161 00:09:14.454 --> 00:09:17.775 So then I build, uh, what I called Yuri mistakes, right? 162 00:09:17.839 --> 00:09:21.910 English is not my first language, believe it or not, and, and so I infuse it with 163 00:09:22.310 --> 00:09:24.191 you know, like, uh, mistakes if you may. 164 00:09:24.226 --> 00:09:28.156 Maybe a wrong comma or dot dot or, you know, like misspell here and there. 165 00:09:28.589 --> 00:09:31.514 And it seems to me, and we'll, we'll f- we'll find out if 166 00:09:31.514 --> 00:09:32.892 that's actually helping people. 167 00:09:33.173 --> 00:09:35.233 Uh, and I'm doing this through emails as well. 168 00:09:35.497 --> 00:09:39.204 And so I think the first thing, you know, that as, as you're thinking 169 00:09:39.204 --> 00:09:40.623 about this topic, to me it's… 170 00:09:41.023 --> 00:09:44.563 There's, you know, to dive right into it, I think there's a place 171 00:09:44.564 --> 00:09:46.451 for both types of things, right? 172 00:09:46.451 --> 00:09:52.175 Like first of all, the, uh, AI with creativity, with content creation, right? 173 00:09:52.412 --> 00:09:54.841 There's people that are gonna love it and there's gonna be people that are gonna 174 00:09:54.841 --> 00:09:56.604 hate it, and everyone in between, right? 175 00:09:56.604 --> 00:09:57.094 We know that. 176 00:09:57.415 --> 00:10:00.734 And I think there's a place for, for both types, right? 177 00:10:00.736 --> 00:10:04.825 There, there's a reason by the way I personally won't watch sports of 178 00:10:04.866 --> 00:10:09.119 AI robots, at least right now, or at least I'll want human in there. 179 00:10:09.119 --> 00:10:09.129 Yeah. 180 00:10:09.129 --> 00:10:11.211 Because as I, I was kinda mentioning like there's human mistakes. 181 00:10:11.211 --> 00:10:15.601 Like even the best soccer player- Yeah … in the FIFA World Cup made these mistakes. 182 00:10:15.603 --> 00:10:17.560 Like, "Oh, I can't believe that person made it." 183 00:10:17.761 --> 00:10:21.510 So there's this randomness of chance where if AI is playing and one robot 184 00:10:21.510 --> 00:10:25.565 is just, has better version control, better, you know, optics and, and 185 00:10:25.575 --> 00:10:27.643 hardware, like it's most likely to win. 186 00:10:27.816 --> 00:10:31.612 So I think that's to me the same thing with content. 187 00:10:31.612 --> 00:10:34.314 You're gonna have lots of different types. 188 00:10:34.526 --> 00:10:35.634 I think people are gonna… 189 00:10:35.636 --> 00:10:39.170 There's gonna be people who are like, "I need to know that this is gluten-free," 190 00:10:39.322 --> 00:10:41.352 or, "This was, you know, farm fre…" 191 00:10:41.366 --> 00:10:43.558 Like, you know, there, the chickens were running around. 192 00:10:43.665 --> 00:10:43.830 Right. 193 00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:44.950 There's people like, "I don't care. 194 00:10:45.136 --> 00:10:46.748 Sorry, I don't care about the chickens. 195 00:10:46.748 --> 00:10:50.292 Just give me the cheapest thing ever or whatever is num- you know, mind-numbing." 196 00:10:50.293 --> 00:10:53.303 So I think that's where I see there's gonna be, again, a spectrum of things, 197 00:10:53.658 --> 00:10:55.657 and I'm very positive about this. 198 00:10:55.657 --> 00:11:01.584 I think once we remove this era, I, I see a lot of the AI slop or a way to just, you 199 00:11:01.584 --> 00:11:04.551 know, move away so, so these, these, uh… 200 00:11:04.652 --> 00:11:07.589 Like when you go on YouTube, right, and you get your recommendations, imagine 201 00:11:07.601 --> 00:11:09.717 that's getting so good, so much better. 202 00:11:10.023 --> 00:11:10.302 Yeah. 203 00:11:10.448 --> 00:11:12.199 Then I think again it doesn't… 204 00:11:12.242 --> 00:11:15.573 Like it'll just ideally give you what you're wanting to watch. 205 00:11:15.631 --> 00:11:16.827 It should propose new things. 206 00:11:16.828 --> 00:11:17.434 I'm all for that. 207 00:11:17.434 --> 00:11:19.043 I don't think you should be in an echo chamber. 208 00:11:19.385 --> 00:11:26.393 But again, I'm very excited of the amount of AI, non-AI, and the hybrid That's gonna 209 00:11:26.396 --> 00:11:29.866 be all across- Yeah … both in content and, and outside as we talk, like what 210 00:11:29.866 --> 00:11:33.865 you could do outside of the show, outside of the, the entertainment w- with it. 211 00:11:34.017 --> 00:11:34.747 What do you think? 212 00:11:35.241 --> 00:11:37.768 Yeah, I think that the hybrid is where 213 00:11:37.768 --> 00:11:39.601 we're, we're going to land. 214 00:11:39.604 --> 00:11:42.245 And i- and increasingly I'm seeing that happen. 215 00:11:42.248 --> 00:11:46.879 I had the CEO of Descript on the show and Laura was very, um, adamant 216 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:50.962 with me 'cause I was pushing her on this element of, well, you know, y- 217 00:11:51.003 --> 00:11:53.850 your tool will eventually be able to make all the content, right? 218 00:11:53.851 --> 00:11:55.838 And she's, like, going, "No, that's not what we're building. 219 00:11:55.844 --> 00:11:59.665 W- what we're building is a tool to make human content better." 220 00:11:59.988 --> 00:12:03.023 And that's that, that middle ground, right? 221 00:12:03.431 --> 00:12:07.698 You know, 'cause our whole society's focused on this AI slop thing or 222 00:12:07.705 --> 00:12:12.289 human content slop, which is almost like, you know, like the political 223 00:12:12.297 --> 00:12:14.359 polarization topic to some degree. 224 00:12:14.359 --> 00:12:16.431 It's, it's one extreme to the other, right? 225 00:12:16.453 --> 00:12:21.557 But maybe where the real solution here is and the real value 226 00:12:21.558 --> 00:12:23.122 is in the middle somewhere. 227 00:12:23.190 --> 00:12:27.674 And I think this election just pointed that out to us, is that the middle is 228 00:12:27.674 --> 00:12:35.244 actually trust And it's also about using tools in a responsible way, us- making the 229 00:12:35.244 --> 00:12:42.283 use of AI kind of, built on a foundation of human responsibility, and that's what's 230 00:12:42.283 --> 00:12:44.095 interesting to me as I think about this. 231 00:12:44.122 --> 00:12:49.598 'Cause this show is pretty much all AI, but I do use AI to help me come up 232 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:53.133 with ideas, and create the artwork, and things like that- Yeah … which are all 233 00:12:53.160 --> 00:12:55.947 complementary, not a replacement for. 234 00:12:55.949 --> 00:12:59.707 And I think that's that hybrid that I'm talking about, and, and I think 235 00:12:59.860 --> 00:13:03.705 that's what I want to symbolize out there in the world, and that's why I, 236 00:13:03.967 --> 00:13:07.645 I'm pushing on this show, and trying to make it better, and try and build 237 00:13:07.645 --> 00:13:09.878 it and make it more relevant to people. 238 00:13:10.103 --> 00:13:12.476 L- let me ask you this, 'cause I, I think, you know, your 239 00:13:12.477 --> 00:13:15.706 audience and yourself, you hear a lot about AI slop, and most people 240 00:13:15.706 --> 00:13:17.010 are like, "I hate I- AI slop." 241 00:13:17.474 --> 00:13:17.733 You know- Now, 242 00:13:17.733 --> 00:13:19.110 what is AI slop, really? 243 00:13:19.113 --> 00:13:20.792 A- again, and everyone has their own version. 244 00:13:20.798 --> 00:13:23.599 AI slop usually- Right … you know, the definition is you go into, let's say, 245 00:13:23.604 --> 00:13:27.486 Gemini, and say, "Create this video," and it's like, it does it, and then you 246 00:13:27.487 --> 00:13:28.936 go, "This is the best thing ever," right? 247 00:13:28.936 --> 00:13:31.239 And then- Right … and you do, like, thousands, millions of these. 248 00:13:31.636 --> 00:13:33.457 I was having this, this thought in my mind. 249 00:13:33.575 --> 00:13:34.928 I don't… 250 00:13:35.112 --> 00:13:36.627 Uh, well, let me ask you this, actually, instead of… 251 00:13:37.004 --> 00:13:39.442 Reality TV shows, right? 252 00:13:39.672 --> 00:13:39.805 They… 253 00:13:39.915 --> 00:13:41.362 The Kardashians and all those. 254 00:13:41.730 --> 00:13:43.166 Do you personally watch them, Rob? 255 00:13:43.166 --> 00:13:43.333 Is… 256 00:13:43.356 --> 00:13:45.419 If I'm putting you on the spot, is that kind of your- No 257 00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:46.154 your cup of tea? 258 00:13:46.217 --> 00:13:46.411 No. 259 00:13:46.412 --> 00:13:46.674 Right. 260 00:13:46.677 --> 00:13:46.914 No. 261 00:13:47.233 --> 00:13:47.716 Figured. 262 00:13:48.040 --> 00:13:50.550 I know- No, I wanna try and l- learn something 263 00:13:50.557 --> 00:13:52.836 from content that I watch or- 264 00:13:53.048 --> 00:13:54.221 That's totally fair. 265 00:13:54.295 --> 00:13:54.643 Right. 266 00:13:54.745 --> 00:13:55.395 Right … same for me. 267 00:13:55.416 --> 00:13:56.316 Not my cup of tea. 268 00:13:56.718 --> 00:14:00.309 And you and I could go and judge people, and I have relatives and family who, who 269 00:14:00.309 --> 00:14:04.477 love these shows, and then you realize, like, you know, who are we to judge? 270 00:14:04.481 --> 00:14:05.761 This is their entertainment. 271 00:14:05.946 --> 00:14:08.597 If- Yeah … if it's not hurting anybody, usually, right? 272 00:14:08.599 --> 00:14:10.961 It usually doesn't hurt anybody, it's just a waste of time or 273 00:14:10.961 --> 00:14:12.601 whatever it is or that kind of… 274 00:14:13.001 --> 00:14:16.386 To me, I know this is gonna sound maybe controversial, but I've already 275 00:14:16.387 --> 00:14:19.674 met people who love watching AI slop. 276 00:14:20.074 --> 00:14:22.874 And then by the way, th- there's people like we're t- there was a buddy of mine 277 00:14:22.874 --> 00:14:27.277 who was like, "I love watching like, there's these videos on TikTok of these 278 00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:29.430 gentlemen eating sandwiches in their car. 279 00:14:29.478 --> 00:14:30.964 And I'm like, "Isn't that AI slop?" 280 00:14:30.979 --> 00:14:32.271 "No, this really real." 281 00:14:32.569 --> 00:14:35.810 And then there's these AI s- what I call AI slop, these, um- 282 00:14:35.810 --> 00:14:40.403 Yeah … over-romanticized, they're like 30 or like few minute like, uh, 283 00:14:40.403 --> 00:14:42.284 it's like dramas that it's all AI. 284 00:14:42.288 --> 00:14:46.168 You know it's AI 'cause all the people are super perfect and chiseled and whatever, 285 00:14:46.372 --> 00:14:50.024 and the, the dialogue is, my, my gosh, like something, you know, I could probably 286 00:14:50.025 --> 00:14:51.566 come up 'cause I'm not creative like that. 287 00:14:51.766 --> 00:14:54.980 And my point is, I also know a lot of people that are just watching it. 288 00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:58.300 They know it's commercial, they know it's AI, and they just love it. 289 00:14:58.537 --> 00:15:03.015 So my kind of take is if people really like it, like why wouldn't you wanna 290 00:15:03.017 --> 00:15:04.311 produce it if that's what you're doing? 291 00:15:04.323 --> 00:15:04.599 Right. 292 00:15:04.619 --> 00:15:05.160 Does that make sense? 293 00:15:05.569 --> 00:15:08.371 Yeah, I think it does make sense bec- I mean, I, I watch quite 294 00:15:08.372 --> 00:15:13.245 a bit of AI g- generated content and, you know, I think that the gradient 295 00:15:13.263 --> 00:15:19.369 of what is considered to be slop, I, I think is probably more to do with 296 00:15:19.443 --> 00:15:24.495 how it's put together and how the AI is used, and I think that's been 297 00:15:24.497 --> 00:15:26.400 a gradient for human content too. 298 00:15:26.484 --> 00:15:26.805 You know? 299 00:15:26.807 --> 00:15:30.755 And it, it's, you know, there's, there is such a thing a- and a 300 00:15:30.757 --> 00:15:33.216 concept of human content slop too. 301 00:15:33.504 --> 00:15:33.525 Yes. 302 00:15:33.525 --> 00:15:41.931 So, you know, so in a lot of ways the this AI content was very roughly put together, 303 00:15:42.249 --> 00:15:47.809 was not fully formed, was not fully conceived and, and produced, and maybe 304 00:15:48.260 --> 00:15:52.985 the early years of AI just didn't have the ability to produce something that someone 305 00:15:52.985 --> 00:15:56.451 would seem or see as something of quality. 306 00:15:56.464 --> 00:15:59.735 And so that's where this label AI slop came from, right? 307 00:15:59.735 --> 00:16:03.417 Was the sloppy early years of AI content. 308 00:16:03.582 --> 00:16:08.595 And but that was the case with podcasts and other online content. 309 00:16:08.596 --> 00:16:13.543 I know, you know, a really great example of this is my own channel at 310 00:16:13.644 --> 00:16:18.874 YouTube which I started about 19, 20 years ago, and I posted a bunch of 311 00:16:18.874 --> 00:16:25.240 really rough, kind of fuzzy imaged car videos back in that timeframe about 312 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:29.925 a Toyota Camry Hybrid or whatever 'cause I had bought one back in 2006. 313 00:16:30.365 --> 00:16:34.898 And so I did this whole series called Behind the Wheel and posted these 314 00:16:34.900 --> 00:16:38.272 videos about my Toyota Camry and my experience with it at different 315 00:16:38.283 --> 00:16:39.904 mileage points, things like that. 316 00:16:40.106 --> 00:16:40.224 Mm-hmm. 317 00:16:40.251 --> 00:16:44.760 Those videos got, you know, 200,000 or 300,000 views over 318 00:16:44.760 --> 00:16:48.482 a s- subsequent period of years, and they were not quality content. 319 00:16:48.882 --> 00:16:49.994 But they were authentic. 320 00:16:50.063 --> 00:16:50.867 They were real. 321 00:16:50.894 --> 00:16:54.931 It, they solved- I think a, a need that the… 322 00:16:55.319 --> 00:16:57.690 Yeah, 'cause those videos don't get much traffic now. 323 00:16:58.052 --> 00:17:02.900 But they got a lot for many years because I think they were solving a need 324 00:17:03.201 --> 00:17:07.484 where people were considering buying a Toyota Camry Hybrid and they wanted 325 00:17:07.485 --> 00:17:09.370 to see someone talk about it, right? 326 00:17:09.370 --> 00:17:12.273 And their own experiences with it before they made that decision. 327 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:15.761 So, you know, there's always a purpose behind this content, and 328 00:17:15.772 --> 00:17:20.781 how it's produced, we oftentimes, um, get kind of wrapped up in. 329 00:17:21.224 --> 00:17:25.329 Um, but it's really more about, well, what's actually in the content? 330 00:17:25.329 --> 00:17:29.825 But then w- we're in this era of, you know, to some degree it's the 331 00:17:29.838 --> 00:17:32.645 splash and the tease of it of sorts. 332 00:17:32.669 --> 00:17:37.161 Um, there's got to be substance there, but, you know, I think, you know, at 333 00:17:37.161 --> 00:17:42.392 least on YouTube I see is that there's a lot of splash about, you know, how you 334 00:17:42.394 --> 00:17:47.911 lead in and how you tease questions that don't have an answer to them, and it h- 335 00:17:47.911 --> 00:17:49.918 hopefully keeps people hanging around. 336 00:17:50.318 --> 00:17:52.488 So, but that's a very human thing, right? 337 00:17:52.868 --> 00:17:53.060 Yeah. 338 00:17:53.060 --> 00:17:55.893 I don't know that AI would automatically do those kinds of things. 339 00:17:56.293 --> 00:17:57.218 No, I'm I'm with you. 340 00:17:57.218 --> 00:17:59.206 But again, I go back to examples. 341 00:17:59.243 --> 00:18:03.163 One of the earliest AI sound that I've heard was, I think it was like 342 00:18:03.175 --> 00:18:06.569 Steve Job and Einstein or some, like, famous folks who passed away- 343 00:18:06.806 --> 00:18:10.845 Yeah, yeah … and someone used their AI to recreate their voices. 344 00:18:11.313 --> 00:18:11.349 Ah, yeah. 345 00:18:11.349 --> 00:18:14.198 And I'm listening to this and I know that this is not real, 346 00:18:14.587 --> 00:18:15.903 but I'm drawn to it, Rob. 347 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.829 'Cause I'm like, it's very interesting, and I know that they 348 00:18:18.830 --> 00:18:20.313 use an AI to create the script. 349 00:18:20.594 --> 00:18:24.210 Is it as good as someone who's a movie maker or knows how to do entertainment, 350 00:18:24.520 --> 00:18:25.975 big budget movies and shows? 351 00:18:26.018 --> 00:18:28.425 I know it's not, but there's something about it. 352 00:18:28.426 --> 00:18:29.574 I mean, you kind of talked about this. 353 00:18:29.782 --> 00:18:33.161 It's new, it's fresh, it's something I haven't seen before. 354 00:18:33.463 --> 00:18:37.781 And, like, it's hard to recreate with real human actors who are like that. 355 00:18:37.808 --> 00:18:38.521 Yeah, you can't. 356 00:18:38.796 --> 00:18:39.148 Right. 357 00:18:39.488 --> 00:18:43.983 And let's be honest, Hol- Hollywood has been using AI-like technology for years. 358 00:18:43.985 --> 00:18:44.960 It's called CGI. 359 00:18:45.156 --> 00:18:45.516 That's right. 360 00:18:45.516 --> 00:18:45.526 Exactly. 361 00:18:45.538 --> 00:18:48.430 And so n- not everything that we've seen in Hollywood, in 362 00:18:48.433 --> 00:18:49.995 the movies, has been real either. 363 00:18:50.007 --> 00:18:51.521 So, you know, I think the… 364 00:18:51.921 --> 00:18:57.736 I think people just get caught up in the the kind of doomer hype cycle stuff about 365 00:18:57.736 --> 00:19:01.291 this stuff, and don't, don't really see the forest through the trees of sorts 366 00:19:01.292 --> 00:19:03.742 of what the potential of this stuff is. 367 00:19:03.743 --> 00:19:04.877 It's just another tool. 368 00:19:04.918 --> 00:19:10.179 It's another tool that is gonna enable us to create content that humans would 369 00:19:10.179 --> 00:19:12.496 probably not be able to c- create. 370 00:19:12.722 --> 00:19:16.624 And I think that's the best use of it too, is to create these fantasy worlds. 371 00:19:16.625 --> 00:19:19.894 I don't know if you've seen these vertical videos that are coming out about, you 372 00:19:19.894 --> 00:19:25.208 know, the, these, these future worlds and things like that where people are or 373 00:19:25.209 --> 00:19:30.057 in the past or whatever that are going through the, the Egyptian times and stuff. 374 00:19:30.060 --> 00:19:33.827 And then there's this modern woman that's taking you on a tour- Yes … of 375 00:19:33.828 --> 00:19:38.562 the pyramids or something from back in the, you know- Before Christ 376 00:19:38.574 --> 00:19:40.031 timeframe or something like that. 377 00:19:40.034 --> 00:19:43.704 And it's, you know, that's the perfect use for AI, right? 378 00:19:43.713 --> 00:19:47.425 It's, it's not to replace this kind of stuff that we're doing right here. 379 00:19:47.436 --> 00:19:49.648 It's to replace fantasy. 380 00:19:49.648 --> 00:19:52.543 It's to replace creating different experiences. 381 00:19:52.992 --> 00:19:53.270 Yeah. 382 00:19:53.310 --> 00:19:56.155 And kind of to build, like, on the trust, like, again, there's… 383 00:19:56.555 --> 00:19:57.503 Trust is so much… 384 00:19:57.561 --> 00:20:00.507 There's one definition, but it's a perception, right? 385 00:20:00.507 --> 00:20:03.311 Like, a lot of what we're living in is a perception that our 386 00:20:03.312 --> 00:20:04.644 brain is doing through our eyes. 387 00:20:05.011 --> 00:20:05.150 Right. 388 00:20:05.252 --> 00:20:08.544 And to me, right, and not to get philosophical, but if you go back 389 00:20:08.550 --> 00:20:11.380 to, like, again I know YouTube a lot 'cause I work with a lot of 390 00:20:11.430 --> 00:20:15.683 different creator, content creators and folks backstage in YouTube. 391 00:20:15.683 --> 00:20:17.328 It's just interesting to see that world. 392 00:20:17.719 --> 00:20:23.499 And really again, where the, the trust comes in, um, it's… 393 00:20:23.511 --> 00:20:26.484 I mean, you, you already said the authenticity or you, like, 394 00:20:26.511 --> 00:20:30.088 like the people creating it start creating the same type of a content. 395 00:20:30.097 --> 00:20:34.107 Like, I think you and I talked about, uh, what is a diary of a CEO, right? 396 00:20:34.507 --> 00:20:38.796 He created something that people were kinda trying to do, but it was his format, 397 00:20:38.812 --> 00:20:43.319 it was his way of doing the podcast, it was his graphics, it was how he's talking. 398 00:20:43.573 --> 00:20:46.633 Like, he built that authenticity, right? 399 00:20:46.883 --> 00:20:46.906 Mm-hmm. 400 00:20:46.906 --> 00:20:52.361 And in the world of AI, why shouldn't he be allowed, if he wants to, like, 401 00:20:52.362 --> 00:20:55.938 say, "Hey, I can't interview everybody," or, "I don't wanna interview Yuri. 402 00:20:55.938 --> 00:21:00.894 He's not famous CEO, but I would love to have, like, a kind of like a TEDx," right? 403 00:21:00.929 --> 00:21:06.727 A diary CEO, CEO X, and you talk to his AI agent and it interviews and then 404 00:21:06.874 --> 00:21:10.951 his producers pick the best, like, X versions of Yuri who's from Google, right? 405 00:21:11.170 --> 00:21:13.995 I'm just throwing ideas of that becomes again… 406 00:21:14.395 --> 00:21:17.028 And, and to me, like, you have to label AI and we could talk about this. 407 00:21:17.049 --> 00:21:18.526 I think you shouldn't try to hide that. 408 00:21:18.528 --> 00:21:21.013 I think that's weird if you do, but, like, own it. 409 00:21:21.013 --> 00:21:24.218 Like, "Hey, I use AI for this, but here's the human hybrid element." 410 00:21:24.219 --> 00:21:25.104 It was human. 411 00:21:25.145 --> 00:21:30.667 Yuri was talking to the, the AI version of Steven and look, it's interesting enough 412 00:21:30.667 --> 00:21:33.537 that we brought it up and you don't know how many people are gonna listen to this. 413 00:21:33.541 --> 00:21:37.866 Like, that's where I think it could actually extend different content creators 414 00:21:38.309 --> 00:21:42.758 to, to world, like from that kind of way to, like, all the C- I mean, you mentioned 415 00:21:42.792 --> 00:21:46.709 the CGI, all these effects that you could do now that, hey, unless you're earning, 416 00:21:46.709 --> 00:21:51.896 like, $200,000 from all these episodes, like, you cannot afford to go to LA and, 417 00:21:52.076 --> 00:21:57.227 you know, have a studio grade explosion, you know, to put on, on, on your show. 418 00:21:57.717 --> 00:21:58.652 Does that make sense? 419 00:21:59.052 --> 00:21:59.488 Yeah. 420 00:21:59.688 --> 00:22:00.584 Yeah, I think it does. 421 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:05.139 I mean, I think it totally makes sense and I, I do wonder, Once we get into 422 00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:08.914 this next phase where I'm speculating and I've been putting it out there 423 00:22:08.956 --> 00:22:14.162 that I think probably 95% of the content that is gonna be available 424 00:22:14.174 --> 00:22:16.976 online will be eventually AI generated. 425 00:22:17.376 --> 00:22:18.054 Um- Fully, 426 00:22:18.066 --> 00:22:18.934 fully AI? 427 00:22:18.934 --> 00:22:20.078 Yeah, fully AI. 428 00:22:20.085 --> 00:22:21.145 100%. 429 00:22:21.404 --> 00:22:21.939 Interesting. 430 00:22:22.180 --> 00:22:24.607 Well, I think it, it's gonna be 95%. 431 00:22:24.868 --> 00:22:28.453 So, and I think- 95 … there's gonna be probably 5%, maybe 10% 432 00:22:28.494 --> 00:22:33.874 of the content will be produced as human-created content or human with 433 00:22:33.921 --> 00:22:36.644 AI a- augmentation or enhancement. 434 00:22:37.058 --> 00:22:37.438 Um- Well, 435 00:22:37.438 --> 00:22:38.220 let, let me ask you this. 436 00:22:38.222 --> 00:22:44.582 How much of that 90 the content that's 95% AI, how much, like out of 100% of 437 00:22:44.582 --> 00:22:47.952 all the content, let's say on YouTube or in TikTok, whatever, how much 438 00:22:47.952 --> 00:22:52.197 do you think people are gonna watch that content versus more hybrid, I 439 00:22:52.197 --> 00:22:54.629 don't know, 50/50 or 90/10 or zero? 440 00:22:55.029 --> 00:22:58.221 Well, I th- the, the reason that I say that is because I, 441 00:22:58.280 --> 00:23:02.639 I think the content that will be able to be produced will actually be better 442 00:23:03.130 --> 00:23:05.256 in a different way than human content. 443 00:23:05.267 --> 00:23:05.277 Right. 444 00:23:05.677 --> 00:23:10.509 Because we are in a, a era, even right now, that's very 445 00:23:10.602 --> 00:23:12.188 crowded with content, right? 446 00:23:12.219 --> 00:23:17.013 Very f- flooded with content, and there's a lot of human content out 447 00:23:17.015 --> 00:23:18.624 there that's not very good, right? 448 00:23:18.642 --> 00:23:23.698 So part of this e- evolution that I think is gonna happen is, is that 449 00:23:23.978 --> 00:23:26.020 the game is gonna get raised, right? 450 00:23:26.126 --> 00:23:30.314 The AI content's gonna get better and better, and that's gonna push out a 451 00:23:30.315 --> 00:23:35.247 lot of, um, uh, you know, on-camera kinda human creators that aren't 452 00:23:35.247 --> 00:23:37.121 gonna be able to compete against it. 453 00:23:37.340 --> 00:23:37.743 Um- I 454 00:23:37.743 --> 00:23:38.057 see. 455 00:23:38.376 --> 00:23:41.763 So it's gonna, it's gonna stratify the market. 456 00:23:41.942 --> 00:23:46.108 Yeah … and so it'll be, you know, like the top 10%, uh, human creators 457 00:23:46.108 --> 00:23:48.639 that will be able to continue doing what they're doing that 458 00:23:48.641 --> 00:23:50.637 will compete with the AI content. 459 00:23:51.037 --> 00:23:54.969 So there's gonna be a lot of content out there available, and it… 460 00:23:54.996 --> 00:23:58.270 W- we're already in that world right now where there's, you know… 461 00:23:58.309 --> 00:24:02.595 I even question my mind even doing this show because it's like this is 462 00:24:02.595 --> 00:24:04.149 just another conversation, right? 463 00:24:04.198 --> 00:24:07.738 Amongst, you know, 50 million conversations that were 464 00:24:07.745 --> 00:24:09.219 probably published today, right? 465 00:24:09.407 --> 00:24:10.003 So how do you… 466 00:24:10.005 --> 00:24:13.812 It's not like the early years when I started my radio show when I was just 467 00:24:14.212 --> 00:24:18.060 part of, like, maybe a hun- maybe 100 or 50 shows across the country 468 00:24:18.060 --> 00:24:19.578 that were talking about technology. 469 00:24:19.578 --> 00:24:23.351 It was kind of a rare thing, and it was people, once they found it, 470 00:24:23.352 --> 00:24:24.933 it was like they, they tuned in. 471 00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:30.570 But when there's an abundance of content out there that's beyond most 472 00:24:30.572 --> 00:24:35.951 people's ability or time to consume then what, what rises to the top? 473 00:24:35.951 --> 00:24:38.760 And it's gonna be the best content, right? 474 00:24:38.786 --> 00:24:39.585 Or the… 475 00:24:39.903 --> 00:24:44.231 Unfortunately, and we're already seeing it in the market, like the MrBeast or The 476 00:24:44.231 --> 00:24:49.311 Diary of a CEO, and that has a team of 40 people that are working on producing it. 477 00:24:49.313 --> 00:24:53.593 So we're heading back to a similar time to what we went through many 478 00:24:53.600 --> 00:24:58.161 years ago around broadcast television, around the production quality and 479 00:24:58.172 --> 00:24:59.495 Hollywood and things like that. 480 00:24:59.495 --> 00:25:03.722 I think we're shifting back to an era like that, and the big question I have is, 481 00:25:03.722 --> 00:25:09.649 well, how many creators are gonna be able to do the level of content that is gonna 482 00:25:09.651 --> 00:25:11.808 be expected in the market because of AI? 483 00:25:12.208 --> 00:25:13.002 A- and that's fair. 484 00:25:13.005 --> 00:25:16.233 And, and let's look at, at the numbers, and I just pulled this up 485 00:25:16.247 --> 00:25:19.197 just- Mm-hmm … just to kind of have something to, to, to- Yeah … react to. 486 00:25:19.482 --> 00:25:21.781 I searched for the most viewed videos. 487 00:25:21.787 --> 00:25:24.742 Like, what are people watching on YouTube, right? 488 00:25:24.971 --> 00:25:25.120 Mm-hmm. 489 00:25:25.120 --> 00:25:30.929 A- and, and the, the top, you know, eight of them, it's either, like, a Baby Shark, 490 00:25:30.929 --> 00:25:32.917 Wheels on the Bus, like kids videos- Yeah 491 00:25:32.917 --> 00:25:33.535 animations. 492 00:25:33.552 --> 00:25:34.402 So you're, you're correct. 493 00:25:34.402 --> 00:25:37.551 You could technically- Yeah … have AI easily redo that. 494 00:25:37.879 --> 00:25:39.164 Not easily- Yeah … but you could do that. 495 00:25:39.458 --> 00:25:44.041 Uh, then you have Despacito, uh, and all these music videos, like See You Again. 496 00:25:44.304 --> 00:25:49.213 And again, that could have AI in it, but I'm wondering, again, at what 497 00:25:49.708 --> 00:25:53.807 stage are we gonna be in a humanity that similar to athletes that you 498 00:25:53.807 --> 00:25:57.493 in- aspire to be today, like, I don't hear a lot of people like, "Oh, I, I 499 00:25:57.495 --> 00:25:59.508 aspire to be this AI athlete," right? 500 00:26:00.011 --> 00:26:03.064 I wanna be like Michael Jordan, not like AI Jordan, right? 501 00:26:03.276 --> 00:26:06.352 I'm wondering, like, for singers or those kind of entertainers, again, 502 00:26:06.596 --> 00:26:10.687 how much people are gonna wanna watch those live or their music 503 00:26:10.689 --> 00:26:12.748 video versus some AI version of them. 504 00:26:13.229 --> 00:26:16.269 I, I don't have the answer, but I'm saying, like, that to me, 505 00:26:16.269 --> 00:26:18.777 like, those are the categories that I think could be disrupted, 506 00:26:18.988 --> 00:26:22.160 and then there's all the podcasts, and that's gonna be a g- question. 507 00:26:22.162 --> 00:26:24.569 Is that more like sports or podcasts? 508 00:26:24.597 --> 00:26:27.609 Like, why are people tuning in to the podcast? 509 00:26:27.645 --> 00:26:31.972 Is it the, just the written content that- Mm … anyone in AI can 510 00:26:31.972 --> 00:26:35.348 deliver, or is it the, the human element that it's harder to get? 511 00:26:35.708 --> 00:26:37.551 And yeah, so what, what do you- Yeah … what do you think about that? 512 00:26:37.947 --> 00:26:42.873 Yeah, and the w- what pulls people increasingly into podcasts I think 513 00:26:42.875 --> 00:26:46.079 is the, is, it is the personality, right? 514 00:26:46.103 --> 00:26:48.242 It's the, it's the- Yes … personal brand. 515 00:26:48.242 --> 00:26:49.763 It's the reputation. 516 00:26:50.115 --> 00:26:57.580 It's, uh, more and more it's, um, those folks that, that have a- Reputation of 517 00:26:57.604 --> 00:27:02.912 inspiring others for dramatic change or dramatic improvements, you know. 518 00:27:02.938 --> 00:27:07.943 L- like the Huberman Labs guy is a good example of a guy that comes on 519 00:27:07.944 --> 00:27:12.623 and, you know, he's written all these books on startups and, and h- i- is 520 00:27:12.623 --> 00:27:16.599 inspiring people to transform their, their lives and take some independence 521 00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:20.637 and do their own thing and be successful, and he's a good example of that. 522 00:27:21.016 --> 00:27:23.273 And so I think those are the kind of personalities. 523 00:27:23.275 --> 00:27:27.042 It's the ones that are driving transformation are the ones 524 00:27:27.043 --> 00:27:28.902 that are doing well now. 525 00:27:29.113 --> 00:27:29.149 Right. 526 00:27:29.149 --> 00:27:30.708 Because those folks stand out. 527 00:27:31.108 --> 00:27:31.971 No, I, I agree. 528 00:27:31.971 --> 00:27:33.486 I'm, again, I'm just double-clicking. 529 00:27:33.492 --> 00:27:33.503 Yeah. 530 00:27:33.975 --> 00:27:38.036 I know a lot of people that, uh, I know personally that love MrBeast. 531 00:27:38.139 --> 00:27:38.574 Why? 532 00:27:38.586 --> 00:27:41.372 Because it's unique, but he puts humans… 533 00:27:41.690 --> 00:27:43.570 Like, "What would I do with a million dollars? 534 00:27:43.580 --> 00:27:45.831 What is a million-dollar hotel versus one dollar?" 535 00:27:46.211 --> 00:27:50.409 And again, maybe AI, again, I don't wanna, like, go on record 100% people won't 536 00:27:50.414 --> 00:27:54.087 watch it, but I think there's, like, this hu- human element to it, right? 537 00:27:54.087 --> 00:27:58.755 But at the same time, think of movies and shows, and we can get into that. 538 00:27:58.755 --> 00:27:58.765 Yeah. 539 00:27:58.765 --> 00:28:01.938 Like, to your point, I, I think that's where the disruption 540 00:28:01.939 --> 00:28:03.637 is gonna be major, right? 541 00:28:03.654 --> 00:28:07.846 Now, someone in a village in the middle of nowhere in the world, as long as they have 542 00:28:07.863 --> 00:28:12.849 internet connection and Gemini, ChatGPT, Claude, any of the LLMs or open source- 543 00:28:12.849 --> 00:28:18.728 Yeah … now can compete in a way with the big leagues because it's the- Yeah 544 00:28:18.728 --> 00:28:20.680 imagination that they're… 545 00:28:20.692 --> 00:28:24.700 Like, as long as they have imagination as good as the director, writer, creators. 546 00:28:24.938 --> 00:28:29.579 I'm not saying it's- Yeah … gonna be one-to-one, but I'm seeing really great 547 00:28:29.592 --> 00:28:33.551 content created- Oh … by, like, s- people who you never would think about. 548 00:28:33.786 --> 00:28:34.393 That's one. 549 00:28:34.597 --> 00:28:38.877 But then again, I'm, for example, a huge fan on Quentin Tarantino and Spielberg. 550 00:28:39.355 --> 00:28:41.494 But you know this better than I do, Rob, Rob. 551 00:28:41.504 --> 00:28:44.968 How long does it take for them to produce a movie from beginning to end? 552 00:28:45.167 --> 00:28:45.380 Right. 553 00:28:45.390 --> 00:28:48.085 I w- I, everyone, I'm sorry to say, we all die. 554 00:28:48.239 --> 00:28:49.337 I believe that at least. 555 00:28:49.463 --> 00:28:54.255 And so I wanna see more Tarantino and Spielberg movies, like 20 every quarter. 556 00:28:54.306 --> 00:28:57.214 And yes, some of them will be flops or AI slop. 557 00:28:57.220 --> 00:29:00.667 But how exciting is that, that if we are allowing them and they want 558 00:29:00.670 --> 00:29:03.816 to, like, we get more of their art, more of their ideas out. 559 00:29:04.092 --> 00:29:04.934 If, again, they have… 560 00:29:04.934 --> 00:29:05.917 I'm not saying we should pressure. 561 00:29:05.918 --> 00:29:09.867 But that's where I'm saying, like, I s- I see AI again as more of a positive 562 00:29:09.870 --> 00:29:12.699 helping- Yeah, I do too … and, and equalizing for some of the other folks 563 00:29:12.700 --> 00:29:14.042 who never would get these opportunities. 564 00:29:14.095 --> 00:29:14.252 But like- 565 00:29:14.409 --> 00:29:16.897 Well, and I think the the, the, there's another little piece 566 00:29:16.898 --> 00:29:21.853 of this too that's out there that's brewing as well, and that's the entirely 567 00:29:21.888 --> 00:29:28.265 AI-created personalities and, um- And performers, um, that are being created by- 568 00:29:28.316 --> 00:29:28.800 That's right 569 00:29:28.901 --> 00:29:34.174 … Rob Greenlee: by, you know, these agents, networks, the WMEs or what- whatever 570 00:29:34.175 --> 00:29:38.446 th- th- that are creating their own portfolio of AI personalities, right? 571 00:29:38.446 --> 00:29:41.388 And building portfolios around them. 572 00:29:41.389 --> 00:29:44.783 And I've talked to a couple of companies that are in the music industry that 573 00:29:44.783 --> 00:29:47.043 are creating whole new music artists- 574 00:29:47.293 --> 00:29:47.608 Oh, yes 575 00:29:47.616 --> 00:29:49.918 … Rob Greenlee: uh, just entirely in AI. 576 00:29:49.918 --> 00:29:54.662 And what they're talking about doing is, is creating just a complete library of, 577 00:29:54.700 --> 00:29:59.571 of high-quality music by that artist, building that artist's kind of like 578 00:29:59.593 --> 00:30:05.004 personal brand, their, their clothing, the, you know, clothing lines, and then 579 00:30:05.022 --> 00:30:10.704 taking that AI brand that's been built and converting it into the real world. 580 00:30:11.012 --> 00:30:17.149 Hiring an actress or an actor to portray that AI personality, and to 581 00:30:17.150 --> 00:30:22.136 sell products that are related to what's represented in the AI experience. 582 00:30:22.557 --> 00:30:24.790 And they're photorealistic. 583 00:30:24.972 --> 00:30:27.027 They look like they're the real thing. 584 00:30:27.427 --> 00:30:29.176 So I think it could go the other way. 585 00:30:29.176 --> 00:30:33.622 I think we've been very focused on human to business opportunity type 586 00:30:33.624 --> 00:30:38.906 of situations, or taking the human and then making a, an AI clone of 587 00:30:38.907 --> 00:30:42.631 that human and expanding that, but there's a lot of pushback on that. 588 00:30:43.128 --> 00:30:48.302 But I think taking a pure AI generated personality and extending it into 589 00:30:48.313 --> 00:30:53.102 being human is an interesting kind of twist on the scenario. 590 00:30:53.531 --> 00:30:56.140 Yeah and, and let's take one use case, and I remember 591 00:30:56.141 --> 00:30:57.336 researching before talking to you. 592 00:30:57.669 --> 00:31:00.465 Have you heard of, let me see, The Velvet Sundown? 593 00:31:00.794 --> 00:31:01.070 Have you 594 00:31:01.070 --> 00:31:01.447 heard of this? 595 00:31:01.447 --> 00:31:02.221 No, I haven't heard of this one. 596 00:31:02.303 --> 00:31:02.464 Oh. 597 00:31:02.474 --> 00:31:05.105 This was like a, and I'm quoting him, "1960s 598 00:31:05.121 --> 00:31:06.451 style psych rock band." 599 00:31:06.451 --> 00:31:07.916 They appeared on Spotify- 600 00:31:08.136 --> 00:31:08.352 Yeah 601 00:31:08.352 --> 00:31:10.030 … Yuri Kleban: in 2025 out of nowhere. 602 00:31:10.430 --> 00:31:13.003 I think they got over a million listeners. 603 00:31:13.003 --> 00:31:16.499 Like, it was going pretty big, and then someone revealed that it's AI, 604 00:31:16.535 --> 00:31:18.361 and then, like, viewership dropped. 605 00:31:18.474 --> 00:31:19.157 Yeah, of course. 606 00:31:19.163 --> 00:31:19.282 Right? 607 00:31:19.282 --> 00:31:20.795 They, they, they- Once they find out, right … exactly. 608 00:31:20.795 --> 00:31:21.412 They didn't disclose. 609 00:31:21.416 --> 00:31:24.612 But again, in a blind test, it's like, you know, like those people are like, "I 610 00:31:24.612 --> 00:31:27.928 know the best hamburgers," and you give them McDonald's in, in a nice way that 611 00:31:27.928 --> 00:31:30.309 looks nice, and they taste it, "This is the best thing," and then you reveal 612 00:31:30.310 --> 00:31:31.921 it's McDonald's, and they spit it out. 613 00:31:32.075 --> 00:31:35.462 I do believe what you're saying, that I think whether it's us or our 614 00:31:35.462 --> 00:31:39.334 children's children, taste can change over time, over centuries, over 615 00:31:39.334 --> 00:31:41.120 decades, even over a year or six months. 616 00:31:41.401 --> 00:31:42.973 So I'm not betting against that. 617 00:31:43.262 --> 00:31:46.801 I do believe, as earlier mentioned, I'm, I'm gonna die on this hill. 618 00:31:46.801 --> 00:31:50.505 Like, I think I would encourage people to disclose it ahead of time, like you said. 619 00:31:50.508 --> 00:31:50.604 Oh, yeah. 620 00:31:50.604 --> 00:31:53.045 Like the personalities that you mentioned, I don't think they're trying 621 00:31:53.045 --> 00:31:55.635 to trick people, 'cause as soon as you trick people, and they f- they 622 00:31:55.636 --> 00:31:58.269 will find out, then game over, right? 623 00:31:58.669 --> 00:32:01.624 Yeah, I do agree 100% with that. 624 00:32:01.625 --> 00:32:06.113 And I think if you're gonna create a, an AI personality, just build it 625 00:32:06.113 --> 00:32:07.621 into the content of what you're doing. 626 00:32:07.671 --> 00:32:13.835 Just have the AI personality identify themselves as a digital version or a, or 627 00:32:13.835 --> 00:32:18.335 a AI you know, kind of a representation of something or what- whatever. 628 00:32:18.335 --> 00:32:22.710 It's just in the, in the dialogue of what's happening in the AI, and just make 629 00:32:22.711 --> 00:32:28.750 it part of it so it's obvious in the The viewer or the listener or whatever knows 630 00:32:28.750 --> 00:32:30.567 right up front what they're getting. 631 00:32:30.580 --> 00:32:32.946 There's no surprises, all this kind of stuff. 632 00:32:32.946 --> 00:32:36.606 I'm not a big fan of the, you know, the little AI button 633 00:32:36.685 --> 00:32:38.192 on the screen or whatever. 634 00:32:38.591 --> 00:32:42.080 It just feels like that is kind of, kind of just a temporary thing. 635 00:32:42.154 --> 00:32:45.348 I do wonder if we're gonna hit an era where you're gonna have to 636 00:32:45.350 --> 00:32:48.370 have a certified human content. 637 00:32:48.829 --> 00:32:49.115 You know- 638 00:32:49.172 --> 00:32:53.848 And where it's … You're not gonna have to identify the AI content 'cause people 639 00:32:53.848 --> 00:32:56.709 will just assume it's AI, um, from- I, 640 00:32:56.764 --> 00:32:58.435 I agree with you, by the way … from day one. 641 00:32:58.657 --> 00:33:01.607 Just to give you an example, I forgot where it was, which country, but I 642 00:33:01.607 --> 00:33:05.967 remember, remember there was a, a huge cra- I mean, still, like, organic, 643 00:33:05.969 --> 00:33:07.277 everything organic, and I love it, right? 644 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:08.554 For my kids, I buy organic. 645 00:33:08.562 --> 00:33:08.572 Mm-hmm. 646 00:33:08.572 --> 00:33:09.616 For me I'm a lost cause. 647 00:33:09.627 --> 00:33:10.174 Yeah, I do too. 648 00:33:10.175 --> 00:33:11.818 But it was a big, it was a big thing, right? 649 00:33:12.145 --> 00:33:14.978 And I remember somewhere, and I'm, I'm not kidding, I need to find this. 650 00:33:14.979 --> 00:33:15.797 We can Google later. 651 00:33:16.082 --> 00:33:20.527 There's a water brand that said, "We're also organic or vegan," and all that. 652 00:33:20.528 --> 00:33:23.359 And it's like, to your point, like, water didn't have to 653 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:24.527 tell you what it was before. 654 00:33:24.527 --> 00:33:25.640 It was always this way. 655 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:25.655 Right. 656 00:33:25.927 --> 00:33:30.116 But in this world … So to your point, I do believe you're gonna 657 00:33:30.125 --> 00:33:33.722 start seeing … I, I know YouTube is starting to even show you, like, "Hey, 658 00:33:33.723 --> 00:33:36.170 this AI's content we've detected." 659 00:33:36.456 --> 00:33:39.366 But you're right, the opposite, I think, is gonna be something people, 660 00:33:39.751 --> 00:33:43.737 uh, look for to say- Mm-hmm … "This is … Look, Rob and Yuri's conversation 661 00:33:43.811 --> 00:33:46.579 100% the humans are authentic." 662 00:33:46.581 --> 00:33:46.832 Yeah. 663 00:33:46.832 --> 00:33:49.705 Those little screens that say their name, that's AI, sorry 664 00:33:49.705 --> 00:33:50.801 to tell you or whatever, right? 665 00:33:51.064 --> 00:33:51.319 Like- 666 00:33:51.632 --> 00:33:51.765 Yeah 667 00:33:51.766 --> 00:33:53.665 … Yuri Kleban: I, I think that's gonna be something again. 668 00:33:53.665 --> 00:33:58.149 And you're gonna have people who love it, who are like, "Rob, I just want humans. 669 00:33:58.199 --> 00:33:59.167 Cut the AI. 670 00:33:59.529 --> 00:34:01.075 You know, like, get off my porch. 671 00:34:01.077 --> 00:34:02.727 Like, I've loved this my whole life. 672 00:34:02.729 --> 00:34:03.344 That's how I want it." 673 00:34:03.345 --> 00:34:05.716 And there's gonna be people like, " I love the AI part. 674 00:34:05.718 --> 00:34:06.544 I, I don't care." 675 00:34:06.546 --> 00:34:09.501 And there's gonna people like, "Oh, actually, I don't like humans. 676 00:34:09.501 --> 00:34:10.570 They're destroying the earth. 677 00:34:10.612 --> 00:34:11.555 I like AI," right? 678 00:34:11.556 --> 00:34:14.298 So you're gonna appeal to a lot of different audiences. 679 00:34:14.543 --> 00:34:15.186 But what do you think? 680 00:34:15.627 --> 00:34:15.985 Yes. 681 00:34:16.385 --> 00:34:19.851 Yeah, I do think that there's gonna be a hybrid approach. 682 00:34:19.969 --> 00:34:24.403 I think it's still a little early to do, do a hybrid approach e- even 683 00:34:24.403 --> 00:34:28.805 though I do know creators that are out there, especially on YouTube right 684 00:34:28.807 --> 00:34:34.794 now, that are doing a hybrid human/AI clone approach, and it's successful. 685 00:34:35.194 --> 00:34:39.127 And it really gets back to how it's done, what's the quality of 686 00:34:39.127 --> 00:34:42.812 it, and what's the curation that's done by the human of the AI. 687 00:34:43.237 --> 00:34:44.718 And that it's fully disclosed. 688 00:34:44.718 --> 00:34:47.025 It's, it's not like it's trying to fool anybody. 689 00:34:47.026 --> 00:34:50.826 And, and that's what's interesting about what YouTube is doing is I know they 690 00:34:50.826 --> 00:34:54.920 cracked down on, you know … There was this reputation that was going around 691 00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:58.801 is that, oh, YouTube's cracking down on AI slop and all this kind of stuff. 692 00:34:58.857 --> 00:35:00.883 And to some degree, I'm sure they were. 693 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:07.129 But that's a measured statement because- I ask myself, well, why would Google crack 694 00:35:07.131 --> 00:35:12.194 down on AI content when they actually are building AI content-generating platforms? 695 00:35:12.492 --> 00:35:15.215 So it seems a little contradictory that they would do that. 696 00:35:15.215 --> 00:35:18.999 So I think what they did wind up doing, I think, and you can correct 697 00:35:18.999 --> 00:35:22.699 me if I'm wrong, is they cracked down on the deceptive and the, the 698 00:35:22.699 --> 00:35:27.383 poor AI-generated content that was putting out false messages and was 699 00:35:27.389 --> 00:35:32.401 doing, you know, deceptive things or it just wasn't wasn't of quality. 700 00:35:32.754 --> 00:35:36.427 And I think that's what got pushed out, and I think what they… 701 00:35:36.832 --> 00:35:40.738 'Cause I see a lot of A- fully AI-generated videos in YouTube 702 00:35:40.778 --> 00:35:44.399 that get hundreds of thousands of views that are active in YouTube. 703 00:35:44.407 --> 00:35:48.360 Um, actually I probably, I would guess probably 20% of the videos 704 00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:52.596 that I watch on, on YouTube are fully AI-generated videos. 705 00:35:53.025 --> 00:35:53.405 So- 706 00:35:53.643 --> 00:35:54.466 That's interesting. 707 00:35:54.613 --> 00:35:56.146 Yeah … and, and that's growing I think. 708 00:35:56.154 --> 00:35:58.992 It really gets back to the quality of the production, and it gets 709 00:35:58.993 --> 00:36:00.251 back to, well, what's the value? 710 00:36:00.262 --> 00:36:01.195 What's the topic? 711 00:36:01.195 --> 00:36:02.539 What's the, you know… 712 00:36:02.711 --> 00:36:08.821 And it's probably topics and a production that a human just couldn't afford or 713 00:36:08.876 --> 00:36:13.527 wouldn't have the time to actually do in a, um, traditional method. 714 00:36:13.927 --> 00:36:14.347 Yeah, no. 715 00:36:14.347 --> 00:36:17.318 And, and again, to your earlier point, while I don't have, like, 716 00:36:17.318 --> 00:36:21.024 direct line of sight of the, the policies, when I think… 717 00:36:21.355 --> 00:36:24.131 If you think of YouTube, right, you don't wanna come to any- whether 718 00:36:24.132 --> 00:36:28.326 YouTube or any place and just have really bad misleading content. 719 00:36:28.340 --> 00:36:28.744 Right. 720 00:36:29.050 --> 00:36:32.009 M- maybe by the way someone would build that, you know, 721 00:36:32.016 --> 00:36:35.480 social network, like it's known for just crap and, like, go there 722 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:36.962 to, to do conspiracy theories. 723 00:36:36.987 --> 00:36:39.855 Yeah, and it's not even j- just AI content that these 724 00:36:39.864 --> 00:36:41.126 platforms have been concerned about. 725 00:36:41.128 --> 00:36:41.495 Correct. 726 00:36:41.495 --> 00:36:42.878 It's- It's the human ones too, right? 727 00:36:43.016 --> 00:36:43.683 Yeah, exactly. 728 00:36:43.690 --> 00:36:48.143 I mean, I used to run the Zune podcasting platform at Microsoft 729 00:36:48.146 --> 00:36:49.502 for many years, and one of my… 730 00:36:49.589 --> 00:36:53.786 One part of my job was making sure that the, the crap was not 731 00:36:53.786 --> 00:36:55.676 in the in the catalog, right? 732 00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:59.020 Because I had to answer to the attorneys or whatever if there was 733 00:36:59.379 --> 00:37:03.415 porn in there, if there was, you know- That's right … any kind of content 734 00:37:03.417 --> 00:37:08.169 that violated the terms of service of Microsoft it had to be dispensed with. 735 00:37:08.261 --> 00:37:12.832 And so that's, that's how I saw what, what Google was doing I, I think, and 736 00:37:12.832 --> 00:37:18.207 it just got spun out of, in a direction that, you know, that catered to the 737 00:37:18.208 --> 00:37:22.512 narrative of the media that likes to paint things in a negative light. 738 00:37:22.912 --> 00:37:23.707 Exa- exactly. 739 00:37:23.707 --> 00:37:26.112 And, and going back to, again, to, to your original questions, can 740 00:37:26.112 --> 00:37:28.069 creators still build trust in the era? 741 00:37:28.277 --> 00:37:29.388 Uh, like I- 742 00:37:29.393 --> 00:37:29.646 Yeah 743 00:37:29.732 --> 00:37:34.390 … Yuri Kleban: I really think that we are living in this, like, golden age. 744 00:37:34.390 --> 00:37:36.790 And I know, again, people are gonna disagree, but- Think about 745 00:37:36.791 --> 00:37:41.605 this, like I can, on Sunday, talk to my twin daughters who are six. 746 00:37:41.614 --> 00:37:41.627 Yeah. 747 00:37:41.982 --> 00:37:44.846 They can tell me, "Daddy, I would like to… 748 00:37:45.067 --> 00:37:46.758 I wish there was a game that had…" 749 00:37:46.770 --> 00:37:49.615 You know, they each like, uh, one of them likes, what is it? 750 00:37:49.650 --> 00:37:51.545 Uh, a unicorn and one a flamingo. 751 00:37:51.545 --> 00:37:54.708 And they're like, "I wish there was a game where it was a combined creature 752 00:37:54.708 --> 00:37:56.212 and you're just jumping over things." 753 00:37:56.347 --> 00:37:56.740 Right. 754 00:37:56.905 --> 00:37:57.221 Right? 755 00:37:57.315 --> 00:37:58.063 And there is no game. 756 00:37:58.064 --> 00:37:58.744 I, I search. 757 00:37:59.144 --> 00:38:01.499 We didn't need to though search, because then we went to our favorite 758 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:05.408 LLMs, and we built it after like, we went back and forth for an hour. 759 00:38:05.689 --> 00:38:05.800 Mm-hmm. 760 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.469 And it thought for four to five hours. 761 00:38:07.471 --> 00:38:09.068 We came back after outside time. 762 00:38:09.261 --> 00:38:11.086 We had a video game, Rob, ready. 763 00:38:11.414 --> 00:38:12.251 And my kids could be like- Right 764 00:38:12.251 --> 00:38:14.061 "Oh, actually I want this world and that world." 765 00:38:14.392 --> 00:38:16.769 And that again is like the, and the creator world, like 766 00:38:17.010 --> 00:38:18.710 I'm not a video game creator. 767 00:38:18.817 --> 00:38:20.384 I dreamed of being one. 768 00:38:20.420 --> 00:38:20.811 Yeah, that's what 769 00:38:20.811 --> 00:38:21.108 I say. 770 00:38:21.110 --> 00:38:21.387 I'm not that smart, right? 771 00:38:21.421 --> 00:38:21.593 But 772 00:38:21.603 --> 00:38:22.490 you can be one now. 773 00:38:22.490 --> 00:38:26.183 All you gotta do is tell a certain AI to build it for you, 774 00:38:26.184 --> 00:38:27.285 and it'll build it for you. 775 00:38:27.301 --> 00:38:27.999 Exactly. 776 00:38:28.014 --> 00:38:28.577 Exactly. 777 00:38:28.577 --> 00:38:32.162 And, and the co- I was like searching like the cost to put on Steam and all that. 778 00:38:32.163 --> 00:38:33.429 It's not that huge. 779 00:38:33.444 --> 00:38:36.003 I thought like you have- No … to be the successful game company 780 00:38:36.236 --> 00:38:38.243 and amazing- Yeah … storyteller. 781 00:38:38.465 --> 00:38:39.889 But my kids were addicted to it. 782 00:38:39.890 --> 00:38:41.939 I, I, I, you know, I, I said, "No more." 783 00:38:42.094 --> 00:38:44.261 And it was one of those like, you know, you press a button and you jump, 784 00:38:44.265 --> 00:38:45.851 and you can compete and jump o- Yeah 785 00:38:45.851 --> 00:38:48.729 with your, with your, the sisters were fighting, you know, or competing. 786 00:38:48.969 --> 00:38:52.292 And to me it just, again, my mind was like, oh my gosh, 787 00:38:52.298 --> 00:38:54.152 like tr- like they trusted. 788 00:38:54.152 --> 00:38:55.143 They know it's AI. 789 00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:55.811 Yeah. 790 00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:59.200 But it's what they wanted to see and it kinda, it scratched their itch. 791 00:38:59.392 --> 00:39:00.651 They make it customizable. 792 00:39:00.660 --> 00:39:01.320 We could talk about- Yep 793 00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:04.748 some of the ideas I've had on, on how do you make this content more customizable. 794 00:39:05.024 --> 00:39:07.161 But it's like at people's fingertips. 795 00:39:07.161 --> 00:39:10.797 They do- It- it's by the way why I think Netflix was so successful and all 796 00:39:10.797 --> 00:39:15.550 these, you know, streaming companies are so successful is you get it now. 797 00:39:15.562 --> 00:39:18.004 Remember back in the day when you had three channels and you have to 798 00:39:18.004 --> 00:39:19.939 wait once every week for a show? 799 00:39:19.939 --> 00:39:23.448 And I know some companies still do this, but- Yeah … I mean, you 800 00:39:23.448 --> 00:39:26.470 could drop something on Netflix like, you know, Stranger Things, 801 00:39:26.504 --> 00:39:30.546 and everyone will stop their whole life and just watch and consume. 802 00:39:30.546 --> 00:39:30.748 Right. 803 00:39:30.749 --> 00:39:35.647 It was like on- The NBC network it was Must See Thursdays, right? 804 00:39:35.664 --> 00:39:36.269 Remember? 805 00:39:36.321 --> 00:39:36.331 Yes. 806 00:39:36.331 --> 00:39:39.584 There was like four different TV shows that were back to 807 00:39:39.585 --> 00:39:40.636 back during that- That's right 808 00:39:41.036 --> 00:39:41.997 that day, right. 809 00:39:42.076 --> 00:39:42.912 You had to see it. 810 00:39:43.312 --> 00:39:43.709 That's right. 811 00:39:43.717 --> 00:39:46.765 But- But now again, like you can earn trust from people. 812 00:39:46.766 --> 00:39:46.787 Yeah. 813 00:39:46.789 --> 00:39:50.090 It's you know, if, if I'm a startup and I'm thinking of my idea, it 814 00:39:50.091 --> 00:39:54.443 should be an idea that's answering someone's problem, solving a problem 815 00:39:54.444 --> 00:39:56.879 for them that they either have to pay money or whatever it is. 816 00:39:57.178 --> 00:39:59.575 I think of content as being the same way. 817 00:39:59.575 --> 00:40:02.957 People like to consume content because they wanna learn something. 818 00:40:02.957 --> 00:40:04.281 Like you and I are very similar. 819 00:40:04.288 --> 00:40:04.298 Yeah. 820 00:40:04.298 --> 00:40:06.218 Like I love podcasts because I learn a lot. 821 00:40:06.618 --> 00:40:08.479 Other people are like, "I had a bad day. 822 00:40:08.771 --> 00:40:10.048 I don't wanna think about the world. 823 00:40:10.050 --> 00:40:11.471 I don't care about logic. 824 00:40:11.895 --> 00:40:14.473 I wanna put something that it's mind-numbing," or 825 00:40:14.474 --> 00:40:15.404 whatever you wanna call it. 826 00:40:15.436 --> 00:40:15.657 Yeah, right. 827 00:40:15.657 --> 00:40:16.866 And, and who are we again to judge? 828 00:40:16.875 --> 00:40:20.426 Why are we as humans trying to prevent someone to enjoy themselves that way? 829 00:40:20.624 --> 00:40:23.862 There's other people like, uh, and that's kind of the ideas I, I've been 830 00:40:24.108 --> 00:40:28.251 speaking to other folks, like I love, again, the Stranger Things, right? 831 00:40:28.268 --> 00:40:33.447 And it ended, and I personally, I'm torn about the last episode of the last season. 832 00:40:33.450 --> 00:40:36.784 Like, I wish it ended a different way, or I wish there was a continuation. 833 00:40:36.785 --> 00:40:37.496 Like I'm still alive. 834 00:40:37.499 --> 00:40:37.547 Yeah. 835 00:40:37.547 --> 00:40:37.977 I'm not dead. 836 00:40:37.977 --> 00:40:38.915 Like, I wanna see more. 837 00:40:39.323 --> 00:40:39.615 Right. 838 00:40:39.723 --> 00:40:42.907 Why isn't there a way for the fans similar to, let's say if you 839 00:40:42.908 --> 00:40:46.864 and I read Harry Potter, we love it, now you can just write a book, right? 840 00:40:46.889 --> 00:40:47.775 The fan fiction. 841 00:40:47.775 --> 00:40:47.785 Mm-hmm. 842 00:40:48.011 --> 00:40:50.885 And then publish and people can add ideas and build on top of it. 843 00:40:50.913 --> 00:40:51.329 Oh, yeah. 844 00:40:51.687 --> 00:40:54.944 Why isn't that for content, video, audio content, right? 845 00:40:54.995 --> 00:40:57.041 Where you love somebody or something- 846 00:40:57.099 --> 00:40:57.281 Yeah 847 00:40:57.281 --> 00:40:59.559 … Yuri Kleban: and with their permission, and we could talk about 848 00:40:59.565 --> 00:41:03.045 how they can continuously earn money, you can build on top of it. 849 00:41:03.046 --> 00:41:05.282 It's always says like, "This is not the real person." 850 00:41:05.485 --> 00:41:06.376 There's guardrails. 851 00:41:06.376 --> 00:41:06.392 Yeah. 852 00:41:06.395 --> 00:41:10.338 Like every actor can say, "Hey, I'm never I never wanna- Yeah … support the war 853 00:41:10.338 --> 00:41:12.972 in Iran, so never put those words in my mouth," or whatever it is, right? 854 00:41:12.972 --> 00:41:16.534 Like you, you could build a lot of these guardrails, but still allow 855 00:41:16.783 --> 00:41:20.315 other humans, your fans, to interact with you in such different ways. 856 00:41:20.477 --> 00:41:21.127 Yeah, I agree. 857 00:41:21.165 --> 00:41:24.244 I think that's gonna be the future, Rob, where why do we need to 858 00:41:24.244 --> 00:41:26.085 wait for the next season of something? 859 00:41:26.097 --> 00:41:27.316 I wanna create my own version. 860 00:41:27.323 --> 00:41:27.336 Yeah. 861 00:41:27.337 --> 00:41:28.702 And maybe it's just for me, by the way. 862 00:41:28.878 --> 00:41:32.372 I've seen some people, it was like the early days of AI, someone 863 00:41:32.372 --> 00:41:35.658 just did an AI that would just create those Seinfeld episodes. 864 00:41:35.674 --> 00:41:37.499 They're all so dumb, they're so cheesy. 865 00:41:37.503 --> 00:41:37.518 Yeah. 866 00:41:37.866 --> 00:41:40.203 But again, I watched 30 minutes of them, I'm not gonna lie. 867 00:41:40.208 --> 00:41:42.837 Like, some of it was like f- actually fun, like, oh, this is clever. 868 00:41:42.842 --> 00:41:42.859 Yeah. 869 00:41:43.205 --> 00:41:44.755 And I, I relived those days. 870 00:41:44.756 --> 00:41:47.816 I love that show, and it ended obviously, and they're not gonna do a reunion. 871 00:41:47.817 --> 00:41:51.682 And again, if we do it in a way that it's not harming anyone, it's not 872 00:41:51.683 --> 00:41:54.659 putting words to the actors they don't agree with it's not making money 873 00:41:54.660 --> 00:41:57.383 for someone who shouldn't, like you could sh- spread the wealth- Yeah. 874 00:41:57.408 --> 00:41:58.160 There's- … and all that. 875 00:41:58.160 --> 00:41:58.278 Yeah. 876 00:41:58.714 --> 00:42:05.448 Why shouldn't we give more of these tools and empower the fans to be creators? 877 00:42:05.458 --> 00:42:07.880 Because again, the last thing I'll end with is, and we talked 878 00:42:07.882 --> 00:42:12.347 about this, is the number of watchers to creators is incredible. 879 00:42:12.348 --> 00:42:14.598 I forgot what it is, but it's like incredible. 880 00:42:14.836 --> 00:42:17.841 Why aren't we empowering more people to create? 881 00:42:17.867 --> 00:42:18.634 Is my thinking. 882 00:42:18.634 --> 00:42:21.707 Just like right now you can go on Lovable- Yeah … or Claude 883 00:42:21.707 --> 00:42:26.534 or Gemini and build an app Where is that for the content creators? 884 00:42:26.610 --> 00:42:27.451 Does that make sense? 885 00:42:27.788 --> 00:42:28.351 Yeah, it does. 886 00:42:28.408 --> 00:42:34.225 I mean, I agree 100%, and I've, I've talked to startups in Silicon 887 00:42:34.225 --> 00:42:38.993 Valley that are really focused on trying to create that interactive AI 888 00:42:39.019 --> 00:42:46.043 layer that will basically enable the audience to contribute their own AI 889 00:42:46.078 --> 00:42:49.166 to the conversation with other AIs. 890 00:42:49.517 --> 00:42:53.631 Ask questions of the other AIs that are maybe talking about sports or whatever. 891 00:42:53.927 --> 00:42:59.935 And create a interactive experience between the audience and the AIs where 892 00:43:00.227 --> 00:43:03.811 it's almost like they're all sitting around the same table talking about the 893 00:43:03.812 --> 00:43:05.500 Seattle Seahawks or something like that. 894 00:43:05.500 --> 00:43:05.510 Yes. 895 00:43:05.857 --> 00:43:05.906 Let's 896 00:43:05.914 --> 00:43:05.924 go. 897 00:43:05.926 --> 00:43:09.892 And so the audience participates and also, and I'm seeing this in 898 00:43:09.892 --> 00:43:14.360 my own work with AI where you're only limited by your imagination. 899 00:43:14.372 --> 00:43:17.077 You can pretty much create anything you want now. 900 00:43:17.477 --> 00:43:21.257 Um, I mean, it, it can be a little expensive and it can currently 901 00:43:21.257 --> 00:43:25.622 still be a little bit technically challenging to, to pull all the pieces 902 00:43:25.623 --> 00:43:28.525 together, but I don't think it's gonna be like that for much longer. 903 00:43:28.966 --> 00:43:32.610 Um, where you just tell it what you want, and it will… 904 00:43:32.615 --> 00:43:36.979 I mean, I'm e- even hearing it in the podcasting in- industry where people, 905 00:43:37.069 --> 00:43:40.428 you know, the, the Adam Currys of the world, the ones that invented 906 00:43:40.449 --> 00:43:45.089 podcasting, is talking about how he's using agents now to spin up podcast 907 00:43:45.107 --> 00:43:47.021 listening apps, personalized ones. 908 00:43:47.421 --> 00:43:52.088 He's not even needing to use Apple Podcasts or Spotify anymore. 909 00:43:52.101 --> 00:43:56.953 He can, as long as he has access to RSS, he can spin up his own consumption 910 00:43:56.953 --> 00:43:59.585 experience and have a, you know… 911 00:43:59.985 --> 00:44:03.992 And so that's why it's very important that in RSS we able, we're able to extend 912 00:44:03.992 --> 00:44:09.253 its capabilities to be able to, you know, have a MCP or something like that 913 00:44:09.254 --> 00:44:13.788 connects to the platforms and offers other types of interactive opportunities 914 00:44:13.788 --> 00:44:15.559 or monetization and all sorts of stuff. 915 00:44:15.923 --> 00:44:20.528 We may get to a point where we don't even need like a Spotify or something like 916 00:44:20.530 --> 00:44:24.046 that to get access to content, even though they're gonna be probably part of the 917 00:44:24.046 --> 00:44:25.505 ecosystem- Mm-hmm … that's out there. 918 00:44:25.907 --> 00:44:30.486 But you're gonna have the option to spin up your own app or your, like, like 919 00:44:30.487 --> 00:44:35.426 you just said, spin up your own game or create your own experience and then 920 00:44:35.437 --> 00:44:37.155 offer that to the world if you want to. 921 00:44:37.287 --> 00:44:40.057 And it's gonna create a very different dynamic in the world, isn't it? 922 00:44:40.457 --> 00:44:40.868 Yeah. 923 00:44:40.868 --> 00:44:42.842 And again, I, I wanna go back to the… 924 00:44:43.135 --> 00:44:46.163 You made a good point, like it's still, there's still technical 925 00:44:46.163 --> 00:44:49.519 limitation for content creation- Mm-hmm … but it's getting easier. 926 00:44:49.548 --> 00:44:53.029 And this again, this was just a few weeks ago- Yeah … I was 927 00:44:53.031 --> 00:44:54.940 just reading where somebody said, "Hey, you know, you should… 928 00:44:54.968 --> 00:44:59.067 You can now go on Claude, Gemini and just say, 'Create a, like a, a walkthrough 929 00:44:59.067 --> 00:45:01.906 video of your app or a commercial.'" 930 00:45:02.306 --> 00:45:05.715 And again, if you try this, like a few months ago it was very like spotty and 931 00:45:05.715 --> 00:45:07.241 you had to like piece things together. 932 00:45:07.334 --> 00:45:07.605 Yeah. 933 00:45:08.005 --> 00:45:10.883 Rob, my friend, if you try now in your audience, like go try this. 934 00:45:10.883 --> 00:45:14.571 If you have an app or a c- or a show or any content, let's say 935 00:45:14.572 --> 00:45:15.864 y- you have your own podcast. 936 00:45:16.257 --> 00:45:19.297 Go to these LLMs and say, "Hey, create like a commercial. 937 00:45:19.469 --> 00:45:20.400 Here's my videos." 938 00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:24.156 I feel like it's doing a really cool j- You could always do it like, "And 939 00:45:24.156 --> 00:45:30.190 it looks like this," or in this kind of style Yeah It is crazy, eerie, amazing how 940 00:45:30.202 --> 00:45:33.801 much it has gotten be- like how better, uh, yeah- Oh, it's remarkable … it 941 00:45:33.801 --> 00:45:37.890 has gotten so good that I'm like, oh my gosh, I used to, you know, have to 942 00:45:37.890 --> 00:45:42.544 go on Adobe, on After Effects, and do all these things, and now I can kind of 943 00:45:42.550 --> 00:45:44.016 cheat with some of the smaller things. 944 00:45:44.016 --> 00:45:47.471 Or if I wanna do like 20 ideas and then, you know, hone in on 945 00:45:47.471 --> 00:45:48.982 one and spend the rest of my time. 946 00:45:49.275 --> 00:45:53.244 Before, again, it's like, oh my gosh, I have to do 20 by hand, and 947 00:45:53.245 --> 00:45:55.027 it's like hours, weeks, months. 948 00:45:55.430 --> 00:45:59.049 I'm telling you, some of these, like I, I, I have like a, a side app that I'm 949 00:45:59.049 --> 00:46:02.302 helping SMBs, and people are like saying, "Oh, I, I want these walkthroughs." 950 00:46:02.302 --> 00:46:05.540 And I would literally do, open up, you know, Loom or whatever, like, and do these 951 00:46:05.542 --> 00:46:09.218 walkthroughs, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Rob, like this is so long to cut, paste, 952 00:46:09.461 --> 00:46:11.128 put music, cut out when my uh, uh- We're 953 00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:12.490 getting impatient, aren't we? 954 00:46:12.623 --> 00:46:14.768 And I literally said, "Hey, use my voice. 955 00:46:14.771 --> 00:46:15.482 I'm allowing you. 956 00:46:15.492 --> 00:46:17.099 Go into my app-" Yeah …"create 957 00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:18.495 these videos for some of these." 958 00:46:18.848 --> 00:46:21.472 And then it was, like, done in, like, a few minutes. 959 00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:23.615 And, and my mind was like, oh my gosh, if it could do it for 960 00:46:23.616 --> 00:46:25.022 this, can you do a commercial? 961 00:46:25.023 --> 00:46:26.073 Why should people use? 962 00:46:26.298 --> 00:46:29.087 What's a good outre- Like, the content creation is great. 963 00:46:29.088 --> 00:46:31.594 And again, I'm a human in the loop. 964 00:46:31.594 --> 00:46:32.516 I do believe… 965 00:46:32.858 --> 00:46:36.880 i'm not the big believer at this point at least that, you know, you go to content, 966 00:46:36.890 --> 00:46:38.494 whether it's written, video, audio. 967 00:46:38.904 --> 00:46:42.121 You say something, it does first version, you send it off. 968 00:46:42.144 --> 00:46:44.759 That's rarely, you know, the one shot, even in apps. 969 00:46:44.759 --> 00:46:45.849 Like I, I don't trust that. 970 00:46:46.255 --> 00:46:49.444 But if you have a human in loop that has creativity and has some ideas 971 00:46:49.444 --> 00:46:52.690 and can research and bring some ideas and say, "Hey, what about this? 972 00:46:52.710 --> 00:46:53.317 What about that?" 973 00:46:53.318 --> 00:46:56.418 And earlier just to the point, I don't know if you felt like a lot of these 974 00:46:56.784 --> 00:46:59.591 AI, the LLMs, they're people pleasers. 975 00:46:59.633 --> 00:47:01.683 They'd be like, "Yes, I will do this for you." 976 00:47:02.160 --> 00:47:03.981 E- even though if it's wrong, right? 977 00:47:04.014 --> 00:47:04.693 We're not in a world where- 978 00:47:04.693 --> 00:47:04.703 Well, 979 00:47:04.703 --> 00:47:04.713 they 980 00:47:04.713 --> 00:47:04.778 want you 981 00:47:04.778 --> 00:47:07.104 to keep, uh, s- subscribing, right? 982 00:47:07.136 --> 00:47:08.880 Th- that's right To keep as being a user. 983 00:47:08.884 --> 00:47:08.906 Yeah. 984 00:47:08.908 --> 00:47:11.246 So, you know, they do have an interest in- 985 00:47:11.312 --> 00:47:13.225 It is like the slot machine- Yeah … where you put the money and 986 00:47:13.242 --> 00:47:14.221 like, I don't know what I'll get. 987 00:47:14.233 --> 00:47:15.000 They want you to get… 988 00:47:15.331 --> 00:47:15.878 I get that. 989 00:47:15.878 --> 00:47:17.473 We, again- … that's another subject. 990 00:47:17.494 --> 00:47:22.360 But my point is if you get arou- Yeah … like, the creation it's really… 991 00:47:22.673 --> 00:47:24.901 I think what, what is missing, by the way, for… 992 00:47:24.927 --> 00:47:27.102 That was some of the questions I was thinking would be interesting. 993 00:47:27.104 --> 00:47:32.442 Like, it, right now at least you still have to talk to the LLM- Mm-hmm 994 00:47:32.442 --> 00:47:36.451 written, audio, video's coming soon with, with Hagen and all those. 995 00:47:36.451 --> 00:47:40.264 And- But soon, right, uh, and sorry, and so that's right now. 996 00:47:40.298 --> 00:47:44.882 You, the only thing that's stopping is can you talk to it and give your ideas? 997 00:47:45.252 --> 00:47:49.708 And, and I think once we get over that hump, again, you'll get a lot of 998 00:47:49.709 --> 00:47:56.090 unique perspective of content, and I do believe that if we go to a world where 999 00:47:56.119 --> 00:48:00.164 I believe that AI can not get you fired, but you can work with it and you don't 1000 00:48:00.164 --> 00:48:01.803 have to work those 80 hours, can we… 1001 00:48:01.905 --> 00:48:06.078 Like, how crazy would it be if we are allowed to have a four-day week? 1002 00:48:06.478 --> 00:48:08.193 Like, you know, like as humanity. 1003 00:48:08.195 --> 00:48:11.934 I, I'm the, you know, not a big Star, like not a Trekkie or whatever, but I 1004 00:48:11.941 --> 00:48:15.029 watch Star Trek and I love that world of like- Yeah … we're exploring the world 1005 00:48:15.029 --> 00:48:18.605 and, and what Elon said in, in the whole space, like that, that's a cool thing 1006 00:48:18.821 --> 00:48:20.973 that as humans we should spend time on. 1007 00:48:21.469 --> 00:48:25.223 And we should enjoy content and things like that and entertainment, right? 1008 00:48:25.223 --> 00:48:26.836 Not just being in the rat race all the time. 1009 00:48:26.875 --> 00:48:31.395 I do believe once that is much better and we have the right guardrails and 1010 00:48:31.396 --> 00:48:35.754 again we try to limit all the dangers that we're, everyone's talking about. 1011 00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:36.271 Yeah. 1012 00:48:36.312 --> 00:48:39.359 I do think, again, the trust is gonna just slowly, 1013 00:48:39.361 --> 00:48:40.761 if not already, trickle in. 1014 00:48:40.943 --> 00:48:41.264 Mm-hmm. 1015 00:48:41.264 --> 00:48:41.274 Yeah. 1016 00:48:41.277 --> 00:48:44.013 And, and I'll end, I'll end with this, like- I know we're talking about 1017 00:48:44.015 --> 00:48:47.705 creators building trust in the AI era, but I've talked to right now in, in 1018 00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:52.381 just in the last, you know, month and a half to, like, 300 people about AI, 1019 00:48:52.781 --> 00:48:55.968 and I, one of my favorite question to ask is, like, h- how much do you how 1020 00:48:55.968 --> 00:48:57.685 much information do you give your AI? 1021 00:48:58.085 --> 00:49:02.254 And 'cause I personally, like, I'm very wa- worried, you know, I give 1022 00:49:02.254 --> 00:49:04.906 enough information, but a lot of these folks are like, "You know what? 1023 00:49:04.919 --> 00:49:05.203 They… 1024 00:49:05.281 --> 00:49:08.404 It has access to my bank account, not to do transaction, but I just want 1025 00:49:08.405 --> 00:49:09.851 it to have more context about me." 1026 00:49:10.252 --> 00:49:15.736 And so I think where this is going is do, do you remember back in the day, I mean, 1027 00:49:15.736 --> 00:49:18.862 you still have it, you know, you go on a website and you have the little sign that 1028 00:49:18.863 --> 00:49:20.750 says, "Hey, Rob, do you wanna click here? 1029 00:49:20.773 --> 00:49:21.795 Do you trust with your life?" 1030 00:49:21.795 --> 00:49:25.134 And we used to read those, now we just do, "Yes, whatever." 1031 00:49:25.514 --> 00:49:28.792 I think the same thing is gonna happen in, in the creator world. 1032 00:49:28.792 --> 00:49:32.269 Like, pe- people will use AI and will disclose it, but it'll be 1033 00:49:32.269 --> 00:49:33.721 kind of like, I don't really care. 1034 00:49:33.921 --> 00:49:37.465 I just wanna see what the content is, if it's interesting, unique," you know. 1035 00:49:37.672 --> 00:49:41.135 Everything as you were talking, storytelling is there, it's authentic. 1036 00:49:41.448 --> 00:49:42.830 It, it has a different spin. 1037 00:49:43.230 --> 00:49:46.179 I think that's still gonna continue building trust between 1038 00:49:46.179 --> 00:49:47.389 the creator and the audience. 1039 00:49:47.413 --> 00:49:50.598 I think that's, uh, to me, as long as there's a human in the loop, 1040 00:49:50.893 --> 00:49:52.456 I think that's the best case. 1041 00:49:52.772 --> 00:49:55.149 Uh, I wanna hear from you though what you think. 1042 00:49:55.159 --> 00:49:59.232 You know, I did meet some folks who want agents to build, you know, 1043 00:49:59.234 --> 00:50:02.525 these podcasts, and it's just, like, agents creating content and content. 1044 00:50:02.934 --> 00:50:05.205 And I'm wa- wondering what, what your thoughts on this, right? 1045 00:50:05.206 --> 00:50:05.439 If it… 1046 00:50:05.468 --> 00:50:07.091 There, there is no more human in the loop. 1047 00:50:07.091 --> 00:50:10.983 It's the human started, and then they walk away and let it do its own thing. 1048 00:50:11.065 --> 00:50:12.439 What, what do you think about that world? 1049 00:50:12.839 --> 00:50:15.521 Yeah, I think it's more interesting when a human is in the loop. 1050 00:50:15.921 --> 00:50:21.272 I think it's a, it's a collaboration that actually has it at the highest value. 1051 00:50:21.672 --> 00:50:24.920 ' Cause I don't know what, what it is, but it- and I've been thinking a lot 1052 00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:30.694 about this lately is, is what is that value layer that a human brings to 1053 00:50:30.694 --> 00:50:33.920 an AI conversation and an AI build? 1054 00:50:34.385 --> 00:50:40.326 And that's human intuition in a world that you're building something that 1055 00:50:40.385 --> 00:50:44.901 your primary audience is gonna be human, mostly at this point, though- 1056 00:50:44.901 --> 00:50:45.265 That's right 1057 00:50:45.385 --> 00:50:48.574 … Rob Greenlee: part of the, the elements that I'm working on with the Trust 1058 00:50:48.575 --> 00:50:53.393 Factor Lab will be, well, sure, you can build elements that are attractive 1059 00:50:53.429 --> 00:50:57.051 and build trust with humans, but you need to start thinking about, you 1060 00:50:57.053 --> 00:51:01.406 know, what elements you have to build to be able to build trust with AI 1061 00:51:01.422 --> 00:51:06.292 agents that are representing humans to, you know, make purchase decisions 1062 00:51:06.295 --> 00:51:08.126 or subscription decisions or whatever. 1063 00:51:08.126 --> 00:51:16.075 What signs or, or validations or, um, that the AI agent's gonna go through to 1064 00:51:16.077 --> 00:51:21.190 decide, you know, of the five options, which one am I gonna choose, right? 1065 00:51:21.557 --> 00:51:21.594 That's right. 1066 00:51:21.594 --> 00:51:27.778 Um, so you do have that element, too where the, the AI is gonna continue 1067 00:51:27.778 --> 00:51:31.352 to push us to actually do more. 1068 00:51:31.740 --> 00:51:33.512 That's what my actual experience is. 1069 00:51:33.512 --> 00:51:36.407 I'm building four different website platforms right now. 1070 00:51:36.638 --> 00:51:36.830 Yes. 1071 00:51:36.848 --> 00:51:38.146 And it's c- And I'm… 1072 00:51:38.546 --> 00:51:42.606 Even with this show it's increasingly taking on more and more of the 1073 00:51:42.607 --> 00:51:47.919 post-production the website publishing side of, you know, it's like I used to 1074 00:51:47.919 --> 00:51:53.212 go in and hand-edit everything in the WordPress instance that is used for 1075 00:51:53.212 --> 00:51:57.698 this website, but increasingly the AI can do it much more rapidly and can 1076 00:51:57.700 --> 00:52:02.594 do it much more efficiently and create better kind of experiences on the 1077 00:52:02.594 --> 00:52:06.573 website than I would probably be able to code in the same period of time. 1078 00:52:06.618 --> 00:52:12.045 So, you know, there's, there's value here, but I do my own experiences 1079 00:52:12.045 --> 00:52:13.531 is that it makes me more busy. 1080 00:52:13.669 --> 00:52:16.771 And I don't know if that's a vector, and tell me what you think about this, 1081 00:52:16.775 --> 00:52:22.368 is that, I mean, eventually are we as humans going to gate our expectations 1082 00:52:22.389 --> 00:52:26.153 or our desires to take on more, right? 1083 00:52:26.193 --> 00:52:27.418 And to do more? 1084 00:52:27.787 --> 00:52:32.396 'Cause I keep hearing from folks that are doing a lot with AI right now 1085 00:52:32.397 --> 00:52:38.058 that are engineers and ones that are really in the, the weeds of using AI, 1086 00:52:38.062 --> 00:52:41.358 and what they're finding is that they burn out or are completely exhausted 1087 00:52:41.372 --> 00:52:43.915 because they're doing so much more. 1088 00:52:44.372 --> 00:52:49.735 But that also requires them to supervise so much more, that it's 1089 00:52:49.735 --> 00:52:53.211 actually making a- giving us more work because we're doing more. 1090 00:52:53.474 --> 00:52:55.398 L- l- yeah, I, it's a great point. 1091 00:52:55.435 --> 00:52:55.945 L- let me… 1092 00:52:56.384 --> 00:52:57.629 Th- this is my perspective. 1093 00:52:57.629 --> 00:53:02.215 I remember when we came to the States from abroad, my dad never 1094 00:53:02.218 --> 00:53:04.369 had ketchup, believe it or not, Rob. 1095 00:53:04.511 --> 00:53:04.854 Okay. 1096 00:53:05.134 --> 00:53:07.089 That was a big thing- yeah … having ketchup. 1097 00:53:07.117 --> 00:53:10.007 If you're born into the USSR, you didn't have a lot of this, 1098 00:53:10.017 --> 00:53:11.222 the communist- Ah … place. 1099 00:53:11.222 --> 00:53:12.768 You didn't have ketchup. 1100 00:53:13.168 --> 00:53:17.999 And he, as, as my mom explained to me, like, put ketchup on everything 1101 00:53:18.014 --> 00:53:19.807 'cause it was like- … the hot, the, the coolest thing. 1102 00:53:19.807 --> 00:53:20.384 Why not? 1103 00:53:20.717 --> 00:53:21.000 Right. 1104 00:53:21.025 --> 00:53:22.828 Like, I've never had it so delicious. 1105 00:53:22.829 --> 00:53:25.380 It has s- sugar, salt, like everything. 1106 00:53:25.380 --> 00:53:27.952 It's, it's tomatoes, his favorite, you know, vegetable at the time. 1107 00:53:28.454 --> 00:53:31.453 And my point is, is, you know, he put it so much that after, I don't 1108 00:53:31.453 --> 00:53:34.253 know if it was a year, two, or three, but eventually he stopped. 1109 00:53:34.281 --> 00:53:37.012 And to this day, like if let's say I'm eating fries and I'm 1110 00:53:37.012 --> 00:53:37.647 like, "Do you want ketchup?" 1111 00:53:37.652 --> 00:53:38.151 He's like, "Ah." 1112 00:53:38.551 --> 00:53:40.079 I'm done for life, right? 1113 00:53:40.286 --> 00:53:43.383 And why I'm telling you this story is I think that's what's happening right now. 1114 00:53:43.384 --> 00:53:45.569 We all got this addictive power. 1115 00:53:45.612 --> 00:53:47.757 We all got addicted to these LLMs. 1116 00:53:47.789 --> 00:53:51.704 And to your point, I'm building so many things at work, outside of 1117 00:53:51.704 --> 00:53:55.259 work, helping more folks, talking to more people, because it's enabling. 1118 00:53:55.264 --> 00:53:55.274 Mm-hmm. 1119 00:53:55.514 --> 00:53:59.084 I think there's gonna be a point where you're just like, "You know, 1120 00:53:59.084 --> 00:54:00.898 I think I've, I've explored enough." 1121 00:54:00.965 --> 00:54:01.115 Right. 1122 00:54:01.115 --> 00:54:01.394 I- I think 1123 00:54:01.396 --> 00:54:02.701 I've reached my limit You're just saturated. 1124 00:54:02.701 --> 00:54:03.122 I know I… 1125 00:54:03.522 --> 00:54:06.431 We actually met through a, a platform called Boardy. 1126 00:54:06.534 --> 00:54:10.746 And so that platform just, like, a week ago or so was… 1127 00:54:11.146 --> 00:54:13.640 Which I've been working with Boardy for over a year now. 1128 00:54:13.743 --> 00:54:16.266 And it's gotten to a point with him was that he'll completely 1129 00:54:16.266 --> 00:54:21.551 fill up my calendar, um, every day with, with people to talk to. 1130 00:54:21.564 --> 00:54:24.614 While that's wonderful I can't get anything else done. 1131 00:54:24.627 --> 00:54:25.055 So- That's 1132 00:54:25.055 --> 00:54:25.314 right 1133 00:54:25.665 --> 00:54:28.234 … Rob Greenlee: I had to tell him to back off a little bit. 1134 00:54:28.234 --> 00:54:28.439 That was 1135 00:54:28.448 --> 00:54:29.047 your ketchup. 1136 00:54:29.060 --> 00:54:30.120 That was your ketchup, Rob. 1137 00:54:30.132 --> 00:54:30.844 Right, right. 1138 00:54:30.844 --> 00:54:30.926 Too much ketchup. 1139 00:54:30.928 --> 00:54:33.784 It's like I wanna build some stuff, right? 1140 00:54:34.052 --> 00:54:35.713 I don't wanna just do calls all day. 1141 00:54:36.116 --> 00:54:38.470 Which is, there's good sides to that. 1142 00:54:38.484 --> 00:54:41.963 That's how I met you and, and there's terrific you know, 1143 00:54:42.084 --> 00:54:43.184 things that come from that. 1144 00:54:43.211 --> 00:54:46.301 But it c- you've gotta create some balance, right? 1145 00:54:46.301 --> 00:54:49.600 And I think that's what you were talking about with the ketchup, is that people get 1146 00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:55.272 a little bit too involved in these things, and they stretch themselves too far, and 1147 00:54:55.272 --> 00:54:57.062 then there's a blow back at some point. 1148 00:54:57.262 --> 00:54:57.317 Yeah. 1149 00:54:57.786 --> 00:55:00.454 I- I'm hoping that it's not like, you know, the whole 1150 00:55:00.465 --> 00:55:03.091 cigarettes thing where it's so addictive that it's really negative. 1151 00:55:03.108 --> 00:55:04.061 Right, and it kills you. 1152 00:55:04.152 --> 00:55:05.209 It kills you, right? 1153 00:55:05.246 --> 00:55:09.124 Be- because I'm sure you've, you've heard this, like, children or us using, 1154 00:55:09.135 --> 00:55:11.055 you know, the LLMs instead of thinking. 1155 00:55:11.066 --> 00:55:13.040 There's all these studies coming out. 1156 00:55:13.040 --> 00:55:15.735 Like, that definitely is a world I don't wanna get to. 1157 00:55:16.004 --> 00:55:18.690 And then what you and I talked about, all the innovation you could do. 1158 00:55:18.933 --> 00:55:18.963 Yeah. 1159 00:55:18.963 --> 00:55:20.346 Again, I think we're just in the… 1160 00:55:20.746 --> 00:55:24.202 We're in it right now, so we're trying to figure it out and if it's not us, the 1161 00:55:24.205 --> 00:55:27.714 next generation is hopefully gonna be more in the middle and they're like, "Hey, old 1162 00:55:27.740 --> 00:55:30.304 timers, do this, but don't do too much. 1163 00:55:30.322 --> 00:55:30.990 Be in the middle." 1164 00:55:30.990 --> 00:55:34.085 Like, there's a how many hours you could use an LLM- Yeah … per day 1165 00:55:34.088 --> 00:55:36.525 versus, you know, churning on this 24/7. 1166 00:55:36.855 --> 00:55:40.488 Yeah, and I do wonder how many people out there, um, even 1167 00:55:40.489 --> 00:55:43.644 that are watching this show tonight really even think about the things 1168 00:55:43.657 --> 00:55:45.034 that we're talking about right now. 1169 00:55:45.034 --> 00:55:45.354 It's… 1170 00:55:45.418 --> 00:55:49.589 You know, I tend to, to think and live a little bit in the future 1171 00:55:49.598 --> 00:55:53.152 because I, I look at things through that lens, and I always have. 1172 00:55:53.174 --> 00:55:57.126 I mean, that's what my radio show did when I was back in the early years 1173 00:55:57.127 --> 00:56:00.173 of the internet, was that's what the show was all about, was helping 1174 00:56:00.174 --> 00:56:01.450 people understand the internet. 1175 00:56:01.934 --> 00:56:05.332 And so that's what I'm doing now to some degree. 1176 00:56:05.587 --> 00:56:09.420 But there's so many other people out there that are so much more fully, 1177 00:56:09.893 --> 00:56:13.740 you know, in the weeds of what's happening with the technology, and 1178 00:56:14.140 --> 00:56:17.705 I just love talking to people that are in the weeds of what's happening 1179 00:56:17.706 --> 00:56:20.222 with this stuff and where it's going. 1180 00:56:20.575 --> 00:56:26.758 But I also- I have my own intuition based on my, my experience and my history too, 1181 00:56:27.105 --> 00:56:31.931 and I, I can see trends that are moving and developing, and I'm sure you can too. 1182 00:56:32.426 --> 00:56:37.571 And then I, I put my lens of media on that, like w- with podcasting or 1183 00:56:37.575 --> 00:56:42.616 whatever, and I can see some serious things coming in the future that 1184 00:56:42.617 --> 00:56:48.024 are-- that will completely disrupt our perception of what reality is right now 1185 00:56:48.025 --> 00:56:50.379 for pretty much every aspect of our lives. 1186 00:56:50.832 --> 00:56:55.244 But the core of it is what our interests are, what we get excited 1187 00:56:55.244 --> 00:56:57.101 about, what our passions are. 1188 00:56:57.501 --> 00:56:59.498 That's the part that's not gonna go away 1189 00:56:59.898 --> 00:57:01.522 Yeah, no, I'm, I'm with you. 1190 00:57:01.630 --> 00:57:03.844 Everything that makes us human will remain. 1191 00:57:04.244 --> 00:57:08.886 I think, I still think as much as I probably, you know, I'm drinking the 1192 00:57:08.891 --> 00:57:13.362 Kool-Aid of AI being, you know, at Google, seeing all this amazing innovation, 1193 00:57:13.363 --> 00:57:15.076 stay tuned for all the cool things. 1194 00:57:15.476 --> 00:57:20.853 I still don't know if, like, it- I, I agree that it's gonna revolutionize a lot 1195 00:57:20.853 --> 00:57:25.606 of the things, but, like, again, going back to my father, he's a plumber, right? 1196 00:57:25.808 --> 00:57:29.556 And sure, and one day there'll be robots are doing his job, but he's like- 1197 00:57:29.573 --> 00:57:32.587 Yeah … "Until then, people are gonna call me because their bathroom is broken." 1198 00:57:32.589 --> 00:57:34.467 "They need a new water heater, Uri, Uri." 1199 00:57:34.467 --> 00:57:34.477 Right. 1200 00:57:34.614 --> 00:57:39.194 Like, I, I can't sit at home and have an LLM chat with me and do that. 1201 00:57:39.194 --> 00:57:39.853 Like, they could… 1202 00:57:40.028 --> 00:57:41.008 He literally says, "Go. 1203 00:57:41.027 --> 00:57:42.172 You can go to the LLM. 1204 00:57:42.213 --> 00:57:43.357 It'll tell you what it'll do." 1205 00:57:43.601 --> 00:57:43.686 Yeah. 1206 00:57:43.686 --> 00:57:46.022 But you need a human being to do these things for you. 1207 00:57:46.023 --> 00:57:46.743 So I think- 1208 00:57:46.756 --> 00:57:49.493 Or have the tools to accomplish the task 1209 00:57:49.520 --> 00:57:49.686 too. 1210 00:57:49.686 --> 00:57:49.696 Exactly. 1211 00:57:49.872 --> 00:57:50.060 Right. 1212 00:57:50.073 --> 00:57:51.386 And, and my point is, like, I do… 1213 00:57:51.457 --> 00:57:54.670 Like, I see in some industries, like, it's revolu- it's going so 1214 00:57:54.672 --> 00:57:59.539 fast, and in some it's, like, bumps or, like, it- it's gonna, it's 1215 00:57:59.540 --> 00:58:01.220 gonna hit a, a, a block, right? 1216 00:58:01.222 --> 00:58:04.348 Until, like, I, I got the chance to see some of the latest 1217 00:58:04.364 --> 00:58:05.816 robots here in Silicon Valley. 1218 00:58:05.817 --> 00:58:08.942 Without naming the companies and the startups, they're amazing. 1219 00:58:08.952 --> 00:58:10.123 You know, you're like, "Wow." 1220 00:58:10.576 --> 00:58:10.601 Yeah. 1221 00:58:10.601 --> 00:58:13.785 And then you're like, "Well, a bunch of them are still humans operating them." 1222 00:58:14.040 --> 00:58:17.038 They can hold a can, but then after five minutes it drops. 1223 00:58:17.039 --> 00:58:20.247 Like- … there's all these bugs that you're like, "Okay," like- 1224 00:58:20.647 --> 00:58:21.770 But that's tech though. 1225 00:58:21.781 --> 00:58:21.850 It 1226 00:58:21.850 --> 00:58:22.685 doesn't always work. 1227 00:58:22.685 --> 00:58:22.715 Ex- ex- exactly. 1228 00:58:22.715 --> 00:58:22.725 Right. 1229 00:58:22.725 --> 00:58:25.553 But, but my point is, like, the Terminator is not here, if, if your audience is 1230 00:58:25.554 --> 00:58:26.753 wondering if that was the question. 1231 00:58:26.753 --> 00:58:29.366 I know Elon, I heard, gets asked, like, "Are there aliens?" 1232 00:58:29.391 --> 00:58:31.203 Because he knows about space, and he's like, "There's no aliens." 1233 00:58:31.603 --> 00:58:31.634 Yeah. 1234 00:58:31.634 --> 00:58:35.439 From my point of view, I've not seen any Terminators, nothing close. 1235 00:58:35.439 --> 00:58:38.454 There's definitely danger in all that warfare that is scary, but 1236 00:58:38.778 --> 00:58:43.124 there's nothing that's, like, self, like AGI, that's here to, like, do 1237 00:58:43.125 --> 00:58:44.485 things without a human in the loop. 1238 00:58:44.793 --> 00:58:47.825 And as my wife like to say, like, "If I plug this, like, internet 1239 00:58:47.830 --> 00:58:51.407 cord here, your whole, like, little agent world dies, Uri." 1240 00:58:51.413 --> 00:58:53.990 So, like, that also is, like, a whole thing. 1241 00:58:53.990 --> 00:58:56.457 There's, you know, it's, yeah, even if you're in the cloud- 1242 00:58:56.457 --> 00:58:56.678 Still saying just- … right? 1243 00:58:56.680 --> 00:58:57.739 There, there's still- Just pull the plug, 1244 00:58:57.794 --> 00:58:58.029 right? 1245 00:58:58.049 --> 00:58:58.404 Exactly. 1246 00:58:58.415 --> 00:58:59.397 There's still lots of plugs. 1247 00:58:59.399 --> 00:59:00.219 It's a little harder. 1248 00:59:00.219 --> 00:59:01.740 I know people would argue against me. 1249 00:59:01.742 --> 00:59:07.895 But my, my point is, I, ag- again, going back, is like I think we're gonna be in 1250 00:59:07.896 --> 00:59:11.353 this, the age of creativity, or whatever is the better English term for it. 1251 00:59:11.353 --> 00:59:13.057 Like, it's coming very soon. 1252 00:59:13.083 --> 00:59:16.779 I do think, just hitting one last point on, as the audience is 1253 00:59:16.779 --> 00:59:19.754 wondering about trust in the AI era- What's the best way to put it? 1254 00:59:20.117 --> 00:59:23.406 I remember, you know, making … I, I had a, a long time ago, and hopefully 1255 00:59:23.407 --> 00:59:25.390 no one can find this a YouTube show. 1256 00:59:25.390 --> 00:59:28.649 That's how it, uh, it helped pay for my college degree of, 1257 00:59:28.683 --> 00:59:31.285 uh … It's like the man on the street asking about relationship. 1258 00:59:31.287 --> 00:59:32.804 Like, "What do you think about this in a relationship?" 1259 00:59:32.823 --> 00:59:36.071 Like, "Would you ever date someone who's married if you're in college?" 1260 00:59:36.071 --> 00:59:36.866 You know, all these things. 1261 00:59:36.874 --> 00:59:37.636 It was controversial. 1262 00:59:37.636 --> 00:59:40.904 And my point is when I was doing the episodes, I felt like I had 1263 00:59:40.917 --> 00:59:43.240 to do everything super polished. 1264 00:59:43.472 --> 00:59:47.002 Like, if I show- Yeah … that I put a lot of efforts, a lot of slides, that's what, 1265 00:59:47.096 --> 00:59:48.655 like, that's what people wanted to see. 1266 00:59:49.055 --> 00:59:51.048 I think that world is, is no longer. 1267 00:59:51.048 --> 00:59:55.620 I think polish is it's no longer, like, the evidence of effort, to your point. 1268 00:59:55.620 --> 00:59:59.238 It's no longer evidence, like, the more hours you spend on making the cuts 1269 00:59:59.417 --> 01:00:01.361 that more people are gonna like it. 1270 01:00:01.625 --> 01:00:07.241 I think it's what you're doing, what it is, the story behind it, the uniqueness. 1271 01:00:07.388 --> 01:00:11.303 You bringing, as you said, every human, just like our DNA is so different, like 1272 01:00:11.468 --> 01:00:13.199 every human has different thoughts. 1273 01:00:13.211 --> 01:00:13.753 That I believe. 1274 01:00:13.753 --> 01:00:16.675 I don't believe we're in a simulation because we all have such different 1275 01:00:16.685 --> 01:00:20.727 thoughts about the same topic even, and our own take on it in a way. 1276 01:00:20.796 --> 01:00:23.518 Even a little bit slightly different, like a .001 1277 01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:24.783 difference even between… 1278 01:00:24.803 --> 01:00:25.653 I have twin girls. 1279 01:00:25.977 --> 01:00:28.625 You- They look so similar, sometimes sound similar, but they 1280 01:00:28.699 --> 01:00:30.013 disagree on almost everything. 1281 01:00:30.016 --> 01:00:32.757 You could know they're two completely different human beings, right? 1282 01:00:32.757 --> 01:00:32.767 Yeah. 1283 01:00:32.767 --> 01:00:32.777 They 1284 01:00:32.790 --> 01:00:34.147 think completely differently. 1285 01:00:34.191 --> 01:00:35.941 Yeah, I've had kids too. 1286 01:00:35.941 --> 01:00:38.758 I've had a, a son and a- Completely … daughter, and they, 1287 01:00:38.781 --> 01:00:40.588 they are not on the same page. 1288 01:00:40.657 --> 01:00:44.849 Exactly, and that's why, again, I think for the content creators 1289 01:00:44.849 --> 01:00:50.662 in the audience, I think more than ever the authenticity of you as a creator, 1290 01:00:50.912 --> 01:00:54.487 whether you're behind the camera, whether you're giving the ideas or writing the… 1291 01:00:54.497 --> 01:00:58.865 Like, that I think to your point counts a lot more than what school 1292 01:00:58.866 --> 01:01:00.723 you went to, what equipment you have. 1293 01:01:00.970 --> 01:01:03.879 Could you fly in the most impressive person in the world? 1294 01:01:04.099 --> 01:01:06.866 I'll tell you, I've seen this on YouTube and they're promoting this, 1295 01:01:06.874 --> 01:01:11.773 is there's a lot of no-name creators, meaning they came out of nowhere- 1296 01:01:12.230 --> 01:01:12.604 Mm-hmm 1297 01:01:12.604 --> 01:01:15.783 that are doing amazing storytelling with AI. 1298 01:01:15.783 --> 01:01:20.364 You know, YouTube has a lot of the AI tools, and I, I think that's fair and, 1299 01:01:20.364 --> 01:01:23.501 and, and hopefully the other creators that are more well-established and have 1300 01:01:23.501 --> 01:01:26.360 these big teams are celebrating like, "What a world, what a cool thing." 1301 01:01:26.544 --> 01:01:29.449 Because again, imagine then they collaborate and do cool things with each 1302 01:01:29.449 --> 01:01:33.045 other even and do crossover things that I'm sure you do with some of your- Yeah 1303 01:01:33.045 --> 01:01:33.890 colleagues in the business. 1304 01:01:33.893 --> 01:01:38.466 And to me again, what an amazing time to live that I'm hoping 1305 01:01:38.467 --> 01:01:41.456 this actually connects us more- Yeah … than disconnects us. 1306 01:01:41.498 --> 01:01:45.414 That, that's my end thing is like I really think that the personal touch of the 1307 01:01:45.414 --> 01:01:50.200 human side of us as individuals- Mm-hmm … that's really what's gonna not only earn 1308 01:01:50.200 --> 01:01:54.618 you like the highest viewership but also earn the trust of people coming to you. 1309 01:01:54.619 --> 01:02:00.024 And, and to me with AI, even without, but even with AI, it can accelerate a 1310 01:02:00.025 --> 01:02:02.169 lot of those things, and you shouldn't… 1311 01:02:02.445 --> 01:02:03.922 I tell people, "Don't fear it. 1312 01:02:03.923 --> 01:02:05.134 It's not replacing you. 1313 01:02:05.512 --> 01:02:08.220 You and AI are gonna make such cool things." 1314 01:02:08.620 --> 01:02:08.938 Yeah. 1315 01:02:08.951 --> 01:02:11.532 That's how I'm increasingly feeling about it too. 1316 01:02:11.554 --> 01:02:18.055 I'm not, But I do worry that it, it is so capable of making Independent 1317 01:02:18.509 --> 01:02:23.806 decisions around all sorts of little things that I would never 1318 01:02:23.810 --> 01:02:26.069 have the mental capacity or the… 1319 01:02:26.469 --> 01:02:30.147 Or allocate the time to get to that granular level. 1320 01:02:30.173 --> 01:02:35.630 It can make very small decisions very quickly based on the goal, right? 1321 01:02:35.640 --> 01:02:35.669 Yes. 1322 01:02:35.674 --> 01:02:41.907 Not so much me getting in the weeds of telling it precisely to put this here and 1323 01:02:41.907 --> 01:02:44.852 this there, but I do do that sometimes. 1324 01:02:44.853 --> 01:02:53.827 Like I'll, I'll tell the AI to change my navigation bar and add links to 1325 01:02:54.227 --> 01:02:59.273 other parts of the website, or feature stuff, or bring stuff up to the top 1326 01:02:59.275 --> 01:03:01.524 of the fold of the page or whatever. 1327 01:03:01.524 --> 01:03:07.455 And it'll it'll do what I tell it precisely to do, and then I get 1328 01:03:07.459 --> 01:03:11.000 to review it, and then if it's a little bit off, I just tell it to 1329 01:03:11.205 --> 01:03:13.623 adjust it and we're good, right? 1330 01:03:13.645 --> 01:03:13.681 Yeah. 1331 01:03:13.681 --> 01:03:18.199 So it's like having your own personal developer that's always 1332 01:03:18.228 --> 01:03:21.166 there able to, to make things. 1333 01:03:21.202 --> 01:03:23.220 And then it also has the ability to do… 1334 01:03:23.262 --> 01:03:26.693 Create back-end databases and do… 1335 01:03:26.729 --> 01:03:31.148 You know, I built whole back-end admins- Yes … to support a website myself. 1336 01:03:31.458 --> 01:03:32.969 So it's, it's… 1337 01:03:33.308 --> 01:03:36.538 It can be a little bit technically challenged to get one set up, but, uh, 1338 01:03:36.595 --> 01:03:41.592 and once you've got one set up once, you can, um, you can replicate it pretty 1339 01:03:41.593 --> 01:03:47.393 fast into other projects and other, other completely different websites. 1340 01:03:47.793 --> 01:03:49.983 And I'm doing that with the Podcast Hall of Fame right now. 1341 01:03:49.984 --> 01:03:55.596 I'm creating a whole extensive You know, w-web application for the Hall 1342 01:03:55.596 --> 01:03:59.685 of Fame that's gonna have lots of different capabilities, um, that hasn't 1343 01:03:59.685 --> 01:04:04.294 been launched yet, but it's in its development phase, and it's just me and 1344 01:04:04.694 --> 01:04:07.346 my AI that's, um, that's working on it. 1345 01:04:07.349 --> 01:04:11.351 So yeah, I, I just see so much potential for this. 1346 01:04:11.446 --> 01:04:15.264 And I, I do think that people are going to be empowered by it. 1347 01:04:15.336 --> 01:04:15.816 It's not… 1348 01:04:16.216 --> 01:04:22.948 I think we're a little bit too focused on its, its, um, its negative aspects, right? 1349 01:04:23.035 --> 01:04:28.191 Um, because the, there are obviously negative aspects of AI 1350 01:04:28.271 --> 01:04:33.938 that, um, people object to, and oftentimes they're fairly legitimate 1351 01:04:33.938 --> 01:04:35.840 reasons to be concerned about it. 1352 01:04:36.240 --> 01:04:40.714 But, you know, technology's always been a, you know, a take the good with 1353 01:04:40.714 --> 01:04:43.005 the bad type of a situation, right? 1354 01:04:43.006 --> 01:04:49.143 There, there's good uses and bad uses for technology and, and it's how we as humans 1355 01:04:49.638 --> 01:04:55.755 use it is where it's important for us to have a good comprehension of, and using it 1356 01:04:55.756 --> 01:04:59.678 in a responsible way is a big element of that, and that's a big part of trust too. 1357 01:05:00.078 --> 01:05:02.184 Uh, and that's why I'm so focused on that. 1358 01:05:02.653 --> 01:05:03.120 So I don't know. 1359 01:05:03.520 --> 01:05:04.381 What's your thoughts now? 1360 01:05:04.663 --> 01:05:07.887 Yeah, no, I mean, lots to digest, but I, I'll just end, you 1361 01:05:07.888 --> 01:05:12.350 know, or add to it, is that there's definitely, you know, people's fears. 1362 01:05:12.351 --> 01:05:14.491 Uh, you know, I don't wanna dismiss people who are feeling, 1363 01:05:14.492 --> 01:05:15.577 "Is this gonna replace me?" 1364 01:05:15.579 --> 01:05:19.224 'Cause I talk to a lot of, uh, young students as well, and I have- Yeah 1365 01:05:19.243 --> 01:05:22.710 nieces and, uh, and then again, we talk about this political- 1366 01:05:22.726 --> 01:05:23.549 There is … world that we're in. 1367 01:05:23.551 --> 01:05:27.596 Like, people are afraid of where this is going, and the whole data centers, 1368 01:05:27.596 --> 01:05:28.781 and what is it gonna do to the world. 1369 01:05:29.181 --> 01:05:32.583 A- and again, we don't have enough time, and I'm happy to to, to do a follow-up 1370 01:05:32.585 --> 01:05:33.744 or talk to anyone in your audience. 1371 01:05:33.745 --> 01:05:35.802 Like, there's definitely pros and cons. 1372 01:05:35.803 --> 01:05:37.959 Like I tell people, and you could do this right now to an 1373 01:05:37.964 --> 01:05:39.466 LLM or just research yourself. 1374 01:05:39.469 --> 01:05:41.456 You could search on Google or wherever you want to. 1375 01:05:41.456 --> 01:05:43.064 Like, there's pros and cons. 1376 01:05:43.065 --> 01:05:48.163 I don't see the world usually as just like binary A and B, you know, one and zero. 1377 01:05:48.163 --> 01:05:48.177 Yeah. 1378 01:05:48.545 --> 01:05:52.800 There's a lot of things behind it and I do think there's a role for 1379 01:05:52.998 --> 01:05:56.770 the corporations, the companies, the individuals, the government, like 1380 01:05:56.790 --> 01:06:00.212 everyone needs to be in this together. 1381 01:06:00.237 --> 01:06:03.050 And, and obviously there's lots of dis- disagreements and all these issues. 1382 01:06:03.384 --> 01:06:08.337 But if you leave that o- on the side, again- I still believe that 1383 01:06:08.349 --> 01:06:12.315 most humans, like, mean well, right? 1384 01:06:12.315 --> 01:06:14.984 Like, I, I don't believe people are just born evil and everyone 1385 01:06:14.987 --> 01:06:18.190 wants to hurt each other and, and do d- um, and I'm not being naive. 1386 01:06:18.190 --> 01:06:22.082 There's awful people, like people I- I've seen trying to use, and 1387 01:06:22.082 --> 01:06:23.150 I've seen this with my own family. 1388 01:06:23.150 --> 01:06:26.700 Like, they would do an audio of me or somebody and call to my family 1389 01:06:26.701 --> 01:06:29.850 or whatever and say, "Oh, I am Yuri," like, "Give me money," right? 1390 01:06:29.851 --> 01:06:30.603 Like, it's awful. 1391 01:06:30.610 --> 01:06:33.763 Let's … what horrible people are using it, this AI technology and, and that's 1392 01:06:33.764 --> 01:06:35.382 why the trust is, is being eroded. 1393 01:06:35.865 --> 01:06:40.465 I'm still believer b- you know, that there's so many better, nice, good people 1394 01:06:40.716 --> 01:06:43.978 who are going to be blocking, working on solutions because I think overall as 1395 01:06:43.981 --> 01:06:46.235 humanity we wanna live and survive, right? 1396 01:06:46.235 --> 01:06:49.733 It's in our DNA and we're less likely to try to hurt ourselves. 1397 01:06:49.734 --> 01:06:52.689 We … Even if we do dumb things and then argue and bicker, 1398 01:06:52.981 --> 01:06:54.001 at the end of the day, right? 1399 01:06:54.001 --> 01:06:56.960 We, we all kind of go through these life journeys together. 1400 01:06:56.960 --> 01:07:00.068 We grow up, we live, we're happy, we're sad. 1401 01:07:00.068 --> 01:07:03.778 We … You know, there's an ending to, to us, at least as we know it. 1402 01:07:03.778 --> 01:07:08.629 And, and to me Really what, what I'm hoping people understand is not to 1403 01:07:08.629 --> 01:07:12.684 just trust AI blindly, especially don't trust this guy, I work at Google, of 1404 01:07:12.685 --> 01:07:14.012 course, like who, who is he to tell us? 1405 01:07:14.012 --> 01:07:18.583 But I'm saying like do your own research and look at the pros and cons. 1406 01:07:18.587 --> 01:07:19.393 Have these debates. 1407 01:07:19.393 --> 01:07:24.453 I constantly would w- at, at, at work with Gemini, I, I constantly like, you know, 1408 01:07:24.456 --> 01:07:28.296 'cause we work on technology uh, internal tools for our execs, I constantly have 1409 01:07:28.297 --> 01:07:29.659 like, "Oh, should we use this framework? 1410 01:07:29.660 --> 01:07:30.396 Should we do that? 1411 01:07:30.401 --> 01:07:30.831 Should we not? 1412 01:07:31.033 --> 01:07:31.409 Is this…" 1413 01:07:31.809 --> 01:07:34.003 Before I even talk to my UIUX team, right? 1414 01:07:34.246 --> 01:07:36.604 I'm having these conversations, even if someone says, "Hey, 1415 01:07:36.605 --> 01:07:37.840 this button should be green." 1416 01:07:38.192 --> 01:07:39.882 I'm having this conversation, should it be green? 1417 01:07:39.882 --> 01:07:40.868 What's a better idea? 1418 01:07:41.225 --> 01:07:42.305 Give me the pros and cons. 1419 01:07:42.374 --> 01:07:47.185 I really encourage everyone that's listening, do those researches on 1420 01:07:47.251 --> 01:07:51.002 the good and the bad, and I think from everything I've done, is I 1421 01:07:51.016 --> 01:07:52.872 think there's more good than bad. 1422 01:07:52.872 --> 01:07:57.200 And to your point that there's enough examples in society where we as 1423 01:07:57.204 --> 01:08:00.771 humans, even though we had dangerous technology, think of nuclear weapons 1424 01:08:00.772 --> 01:08:03.981 and all that, and I know war is still going on unfortunately and it's sad, 1425 01:08:03.981 --> 01:08:08.421 but I'm saying we managed it and I truly believe that together we can… 1426 01:08:08.433 --> 01:08:12.079 We have to have these conversations by the way to manage it, and then if we 1427 01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:16.603 can get past that, the benefits that I'm clearly seeing, to your point, Rob, 1428 01:08:16.923 --> 01:08:21.198 if we can teach more people to use AI and AI becomes easier and we make it… 1429 01:08:21.598 --> 01:08:24.371 I'm hoping by the way it's as free in the future as water. 1430 01:08:24.372 --> 01:08:27.084 You know, you can go to the library and get free water. 1431 01:08:27.279 --> 01:08:31.257 How ama- or open, you know, the water spout at your home or in the office, like 1432 01:08:31.552 --> 01:08:35.664 how amazing would that be if everyone got that, those skills, those superpowers, and 1433 01:08:35.666 --> 01:08:38.271 we upgrade ourselves as, as, as humans? 1434 01:08:38.281 --> 01:08:42.572 Like, I think it, it'll be crazy to me if we don't want everyone to have 1435 01:08:42.572 --> 01:08:46.112 this, to like and ef- eventually find a way to make it free or a way that 1436 01:08:46.257 --> 01:08:48.798 it's kinda like, you know, when you go on YouTube you don't pay for it. 1437 01:08:48.798 --> 01:08:49.293 It's free. 1438 01:08:49.293 --> 01:08:52.256 There's ads and you can be annoyed, but as a society we agreed we're 1439 01:08:52.256 --> 01:08:54.882 okay with the ads for now because we get all this free content. 1440 01:08:55.282 --> 01:08:59.041 Imagine everyone gets AI and, and automation and, and it's, again, 1441 01:08:59.051 --> 01:09:00.600 done in a way that's helping. 1442 01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:04.732 Like I think there's gonna be more a lot, even a lot more good than bad. 1443 01:09:05.007 --> 01:09:08.660 And then to your point, like may- maybe we'll all be traveling the stars 1444 01:09:08.661 --> 01:09:11.451 and, and doing even cooler things than, than we're doing right now. 1445 01:09:11.851 --> 01:09:12.041 Yeah. 1446 01:09:12.041 --> 01:09:16.724 I try and draw some parallels to what, what we all saw with the 1447 01:09:16.724 --> 01:09:18.487 growth of the internet, right? 1448 01:09:18.555 --> 01:09:25.673 And how that took many years for it to have widespread adoption and, and 1449 01:09:25.674 --> 01:09:29.931 I think we're, I think we're at like maybe 90% of the global population 1450 01:09:29.949 --> 01:09:34.136 has some sort of access to the internet at some level or somewhere. 1451 01:09:34.528 --> 01:09:39.558 So w- even the basic level of internet access, we're not even 100%. 1452 01:09:40.041 --> 01:09:43.483 So this is definitely a Time scale. 1453 01:09:43.490 --> 01:09:48.622 Now granted it could be faster this way because, you know, there's not those 1454 01:09:48.633 --> 01:09:53.627 physical limitations that the internet had of having the infrastructure or whatever. 1455 01:09:53.921 --> 01:09:55.890 The infrastructure is pretty much already built. 1456 01:09:55.935 --> 01:10:00.369 Now it's just a, a access type of an issue, right? 1457 01:10:00.369 --> 01:10:04.992 And with platforms like Starlink and whatever that are blanketing the Earth 1458 01:10:05.024 --> 01:10:12.121 with internet access, there's really very little gating access issues right now. 1459 01:10:12.174 --> 01:10:16.828 It's probably what, what device or, you know, what's the availability. 1460 01:10:16.828 --> 01:10:21.280 I know in Africa there's been a big movement over the last few years 1461 01:10:21.281 --> 01:10:24.139 of offering low-cost phones and- 1462 01:10:24.142 --> 01:10:24.473 Yes 1463 01:10:24.473 --> 01:10:27.526 things like that, that g- has given people that have traditionally 1464 01:10:27.527 --> 01:10:30.854 not had access to technology access. 1465 01:10:30.919 --> 01:10:35.368 And I think that's gonna happen with AI, and it may happen a lot faster 1466 01:10:35.490 --> 01:10:37.345 than it happened with the internet. 1467 01:10:37.745 --> 01:10:41.116 And I think that's probably what's gonna wind up happening and I just 1468 01:10:41.117 --> 01:10:44.970 don't think either one of us really know what the implications of this are. 1469 01:10:44.970 --> 01:10:48.452 Just like when I was doing my national syndicated radio show about the internet 1470 01:10:48.522 --> 01:10:53.015 I didn't know the topics I was talking about, about wireless internet were gonna 1471 01:10:53.415 --> 01:10:56.054 really be as important as they are today. 1472 01:10:56.432 --> 01:11:00.902 Um, just like now, I don't think we know the importance of what we're building 1473 01:11:00.904 --> 01:11:03.886 here with AI to the future of the world. 1474 01:11:04.039 --> 01:11:09.717 Um, and it could be something far beyond any comprehension that we can have 1475 01:11:09.762 --> 01:11:14.452 right now, just like it was with, you know, what happened with social media 1476 01:11:14.452 --> 01:11:16.447 and, and it's not always good, right? 1477 01:11:16.458 --> 01:11:18.027 There's good sides and bad sides. 1478 01:11:18.027 --> 01:11:21.102 I mean, I've enjoyed social media, but I also can see the, 1479 01:11:21.502 --> 01:11:23.407 the manipulation of it too, right? 1480 01:11:23.466 --> 01:11:23.787 Yeah. 1481 01:11:23.790 --> 01:11:31.350 And there's human greed and human aspiration and human biases get 1482 01:11:31.366 --> 01:11:33.019 layered into any of these things. 1483 01:11:33.053 --> 01:11:37.141 And so I think we're gonna see that with AI too that it was built on AI. 1484 01:11:37.187 --> 01:11:42.154 I mean, it was built on human knowledge, so of course it's gonna reflect the 1485 01:11:42.154 --> 01:11:47.248 values and the complexity of, of the, the human experience, right? 1486 01:11:47.271 --> 01:11:47.769 Yeah. 1487 01:11:48.172 --> 01:11:52.509 And maybe it's gonna be more intelligent than us, and if it is, maybe it'll, it'll 1488 01:11:52.509 --> 01:11:54.433 make better choices than humans make. 1489 01:11:54.655 --> 01:11:55.254 I don't know. 1490 01:11:55.446 --> 01:11:55.642 That's right. 1491 01:11:55.644 --> 01:11:56.728 I, I'll just end with this. 1492 01:11:56.728 --> 01:11:59.213 I know we've been talking for a while and I have so many more 1493 01:11:59.213 --> 01:12:01.235 topics, but Rob, think about this. 1494 01:12:01.641 --> 01:12:02.587 Podcasting. 1495 01:12:02.968 --> 01:12:02.986 Yeah. 1496 01:12:02.986 --> 01:12:08.529 I was just seeing the term or the plumbing started around 2000, 2001. 1497 01:12:08.929 --> 01:12:12.492 And then the name really started around 2004. 1498 01:12:12.492 --> 01:12:12.502 2004. 1499 01:12:12.628 --> 01:12:12.903 Right. 1500 01:12:12.929 --> 01:12:13.327 Right? 1501 01:12:13.392 --> 01:12:18.584 It became a bit more mainstream, like Apple added Podcast around 2005, and then 1502 01:12:18.584 --> 01:12:20.289 it had like its thing back and forward. 1503 01:12:20.695 --> 01:12:20.709 Mm-hmm. 1504 01:12:20.709 --> 01:12:26.240 Then 2014 when Serial, you know, that podcast series became… 1505 01:12:26.451 --> 01:12:28.403 That, that was when it started the golden age. 1506 01:12:28.661 --> 01:12:33.791 And then 2020, if you remember with COVID, everyone's home, that blew up with videos. 1507 01:12:33.798 --> 01:12:34.247 Yeah, right. 1508 01:12:34.247 --> 01:12:35.500 And, and what I'm saying is like- 1509 01:12:35.761 --> 01:12:36.066 Yeah 1510 01:12:36.424 --> 01:12:38.265 … Yuri Kleban: that, and, and let me add one more. 1511 01:12:38.665 --> 01:12:43.630 R- it was a few months ago, I remember reading this, Waymo cars Mm-hmm … right? 1512 01:12:43.653 --> 01:12:45.004 There's no human driver. 1513 01:12:45.085 --> 01:12:49.963 So if I exit and the door is one of those that I have to manually open, if I don't 1514 01:12:49.963 --> 01:12:54.546 close it and walk away fully, that car can't move until you close the door. 1515 01:12:54.783 --> 01:12:55.202 Mm-hmm. 1516 01:12:55.207 --> 01:12:58.572 And so what was happening, at least in SF, is the, the Waymo 1517 01:12:58.572 --> 01:13:03.500 operators would have to order an Uber driver to come in and close the door. 1518 01:13:03.638 --> 01:13:04.232 Oh, no. 1519 01:13:04.245 --> 01:13:05.173 And think about that. 1520 01:13:05.173 --> 01:13:06.315 That was someone's job. 1521 01:13:06.315 --> 01:13:10.530 They were paid to come in and close the door, and both of those, why I'm laughing 1522 01:13:10.530 --> 01:13:13.403 and, and, and why I'm re- reminding us is to the point you're making. 1523 01:13:13.532 --> 01:13:17.440 We don't even know what kind of jobs and content creators are gonna be… 1524 01:13:17.486 --> 01:13:23.322 Like- Mm … I can only imagine as, again, as more content creators start 1525 01:13:23.322 --> 01:13:25.728 creating, so that's more businesses- 1526 01:13:26.128 --> 01:13:26.337 Yeah 1527 01:13:26.337 --> 01:13:28.703 … Yuri Kleban: more new teams are gonna be created. 1528 01:13:29.121 --> 01:13:30.512 AI is gonna come up with… 1529 01:13:30.538 --> 01:13:33.952 You'll need, like, I don't know, a per- like your AI 1530 01:13:33.965 --> 01:13:35.598 special- your prompt specialist. 1531 01:13:35.598 --> 01:13:38.391 Maybe that's what Rob is gonna hire next, like the prompt specialist. 1532 01:13:38.393 --> 01:13:40.533 That's all they do is just prompt the heck out of… 1533 01:13:40.568 --> 01:13:44.025 Like I, I can't even phantom, to your point, like what kind of jobs. 1534 01:13:44.353 --> 01:13:48.396 I think there's gonna be a huge influx of these types of jobs- 1535 01:13:48.733 --> 01:13:51.983 Mm-hmm … that we haven't even thought about from the creator side 1536 01:13:51.983 --> 01:13:55.846 of the house that, again, that it's kind of like the, the factory floor. 1537 01:13:55.847 --> 01:13:56.803 You used to be on the factory. 1538 01:13:56.803 --> 01:13:59.628 You used to do this and now there's robots, but now there's other things 1539 01:13:59.841 --> 01:14:01.319 that people are doing that are… 1540 01:14:01.355 --> 01:14:04.975 Like we were p- we got new jobs w- like the modern jobs. 1541 01:14:05.235 --> 01:14:06.389 What's the next ones? 1542 01:14:06.696 --> 01:14:10.820 I can't even tell you, but I do know we have not even thought about them, and in 1543 01:14:10.821 --> 01:14:12.438 a year time, you can quote me on this. 1544 01:14:12.716 --> 01:14:12.753 Yeah. 1545 01:14:12.753 --> 01:14:15.511 We're all gonna laugh like, "Oh yeah, that crazy, you know, guy 1546 01:14:15.511 --> 01:14:16.847 on, on Rob's show was right." 1547 01:14:16.847 --> 01:14:18.272 Like, there's now ABC. 1548 01:14:18.388 --> 01:14:20.719 Like, no one even knew these terms, and we just created it. 1549 01:14:21.134 --> 01:14:21.607 Right. 1550 01:14:21.828 --> 01:14:25.736 Well, I kind of wonder if what the future is, and I think we're already 1551 01:14:25.738 --> 01:14:30.472 seeing it, is that each of us becomes our own, like our own business, 1552 01:14:30.472 --> 01:14:35.541 our own ecosystem, our own, um, op- operation that's linked up with our 1553 01:14:35.941 --> 01:14:39.476 interests, our desires, and our skills. 1554 01:14:39.876 --> 01:14:44.727 Uh, and we create something in the world of value, and I think 1555 01:14:44.732 --> 01:14:47.096 that it's not so much about jobs. 1556 01:14:47.096 --> 01:14:53.148 It's more about empowerment for us to meet our full potential of 1557 01:14:53.148 --> 01:14:57.611 what we're capable of producing based on our unique experiences 1558 01:14:57.611 --> 01:14:59.169 and characteristics and skills. 1559 01:14:59.483 --> 01:15:04.202 And I think we're seeing the very early days of that, But I think it's pretty, 1560 01:15:04.667 --> 01:15:06.612 it's pretty extensive already actually. 1561 01:15:06.612 --> 01:15:10.255 I think there, there's a lot of people starting startups, one-person 1562 01:15:10.260 --> 01:15:13.428 startups now that are-- I mean, I'm, I'm doing the same thing with 1563 01:15:13.428 --> 01:15:15.887 four websites and four platforms. 1564 01:15:16.335 --> 01:15:22.471 You know, it's, you know, these tools are gonna enable people to make stuff 1565 01:15:22.485 --> 01:15:27.354 for themselves, and I think that, that may be more likely where we're going. 1566 01:15:27.369 --> 01:15:31.291 It's not so much that I'm gonna be going out looking for a job with 1567 01:15:31.741 --> 01:15:33.652 ABC News or something like that. 1568 01:15:33.654 --> 01:15:37.573 It's gonna be I'm gonna create my own platform, I'm gonna create my own 1569 01:15:37.908 --> 01:15:41.443 thing, and then I'm gonna e-establish partnerships with other people that 1570 01:15:41.458 --> 01:15:47.028 have a, an interest and are building AI capabilities too that I can partner with. 1571 01:15:47.028 --> 01:15:50.972 I'm already starting to do some of this stuff right now with some of my platforms 1572 01:15:50.972 --> 01:15:55.385 where I'm partnering with other AI platforms to add value to my platform. 1573 01:15:55.470 --> 01:16:00.227 And so we're creating ecosystems of companies working together, 1574 01:16:00.426 --> 01:16:03.238 and that may be what the new economy actually looks like 1575 01:16:03.638 --> 01:16:04.055 Right on. 1576 01:16:04.127 --> 01:16:05.300 I've no notes. 1577 01:16:05.323 --> 01:16:08.060 I think that's definitely a, a strong possibility. 1578 01:16:08.464 --> 01:16:11.407 The only, again, repetition I'll say is we don't… 1579 01:16:11.446 --> 01:16:15.397 Like, every futurist that I've spoken, I'm similar to you, I love- Is 1580 01:16:15.397 --> 01:16:15.975 wrong, right? 1581 01:16:16.371 --> 01:16:16.583 Right. 1582 01:16:16.692 --> 01:16:21.340 And we've all been even Ray Kurzweil, who I got to meet, brilliant futurist, who's 1583 01:16:21.397 --> 01:16:25.881 pretty good on very specific things, but even he has things that he got wrong. 1584 01:16:26.004 --> 01:16:26.329 Yeah, 1585 01:16:26.356 --> 01:16:26.560 right. 1586 01:16:26.560 --> 01:16:30.261 And, and my point is, again, I didn't hear any futurist say, 1587 01:16:30.262 --> 01:16:31.976 "Hey, we're gonna, like… 1588 01:16:32.177 --> 01:16:35.179 You know, with the job of 2026, there'll be people driving 1589 01:16:35.180 --> 01:16:37.173 in Ubers closing Waymo cars." 1590 01:16:37.173 --> 01:16:38.359 Like, no one predicted that. 1591 01:16:38.759 --> 01:16:39.329 And, right. 1592 01:16:39.426 --> 01:16:43.309 Uh, or, or podcasting- Right … is gonna be the biggest thing ever after 2020. 1593 01:16:43.309 --> 01:16:46.390 Like, it's, like, everyone that I know is listening to a podcast. 1594 01:16:46.399 --> 01:16:46.838 I have theirs. 1595 01:16:46.840 --> 01:16:50.828 And so yeah my, my thing is I agree that there's, what you laid out 1596 01:16:50.856 --> 01:16:52.987 is the clear, like, logical path. 1597 01:16:53.322 --> 01:16:56.801 But as humans, as we start talking about this- … we're not perfect, so we're 1598 01:16:56.802 --> 01:16:59.570 gonna come up with- It's gonna deviate, right … exactly, we're gonna deviate and 1599 01:16:59.575 --> 01:17:05.363 come up with something that, like, no one even knew that like, oh my gosh, like… 1600 01:17:05.636 --> 01:17:07.162 W- again, I was, I was joking. 1601 01:17:07.163 --> 01:17:10.425 Like, we, you know, we're walking, and so you're creating energy, 1602 01:17:10.425 --> 01:17:12.984 and this whole power problem that we're having in the world. 1603 01:17:13.263 --> 01:17:16.895 What if, would someone, would AI figure out, like, you wear shoes, 1604 01:17:16.898 --> 01:17:19.987 but we put something, and that gives power, and it sends it to the 1605 01:17:19.987 --> 01:17:22.286 grid- … and as you walk, you get paid. 1606 01:17:22.324 --> 01:17:25.005 You know, if you have a solar panel in, in- Yeah … here, right? 1607 01:17:25.164 --> 01:17:28.144 But imagine, silly idea, but, like, we all walk, or a lot of us. 1608 01:17:28.569 --> 01:17:30.845 Now there's gonna be jobs of people just to walk. 1609 01:17:30.857 --> 01:17:34.681 You're just a, a power walker literally making power for data 1610 01:17:34.681 --> 01:17:37.230 centers or your next door grocery shop. 1611 01:17:37.237 --> 01:17:42.906 Like, that might seem crazy right now, but as technology can evolve much 1612 01:17:42.908 --> 01:17:46.817 faster, and if we can use AI and someone can come up with this faster, my gosh, 1613 01:17:46.825 --> 01:17:48.397 like, that'll be the next job that… 1614 01:17:48.409 --> 01:17:51.379 And, you know, 10,000 people will sign up and, "Okay, cool. 1615 01:17:51.428 --> 01:17:52.129 I'm part of that." 1616 01:17:52.529 --> 01:17:55.823 Yeah, I'm gonna go out and ride my bike for my career because it's 1617 01:17:55.842 --> 01:17:57.465 generating electricity for the grid. 1618 01:17:57.465 --> 01:17:58.012 Exactly. 1619 01:17:58.042 --> 01:17:58.235 Right. 1620 01:17:58.235 --> 01:17:58.742 Exactly. 1621 01:17:58.742 --> 01:18:00.110 It's paying for this podcast. 1622 01:18:00.138 --> 01:18:00.667 Thank you. 1623 01:18:01.067 --> 01:18:04.637 And at, at the same time, I'm getting and staying healthy, right? 1624 01:18:04.814 --> 01:18:05.784 'Cause I'm getting exercise. 1625 01:18:05.819 --> 01:18:06.602 Exactly. 1626 01:18:06.749 --> 01:18:07.082 Exactly. 1627 01:18:07.096 --> 01:18:08.088 So yeah. 1628 01:18:08.189 --> 01:18:10.569 That's, that sounds like a utopia, Yuri. 1629 01:18:11.004 --> 01:18:11.410 I am… 1630 01:18:11.673 --> 01:18:12.421 I would like us… 1631 01:18:12.440 --> 01:18:17.288 You know, again, I am- I always want, I wanna be the naive person thinking 1632 01:18:17.346 --> 01:18:20.675 that we can get to world peace, no war, and everyone can hold their hands. 1633 01:18:20.677 --> 01:18:24.325 Because I, I think if we don't imagine that, then it won't happen. 1634 01:18:24.328 --> 01:18:28.277 Some of us have to imagine that it's not just doom, gloom, and war, and 1635 01:18:28.277 --> 01:18:30.663 death, that there's great things. 1636 01:18:30.663 --> 01:18:34.217 And there's a few publication, like if people search, it's like the good 1637 01:18:34.219 --> 01:18:36.850 news, like the people actually wanna show you, like there's actually really 1638 01:18:36.851 --> 01:18:38.186 cool things happening in the world. 1639 01:18:38.186 --> 01:18:42.062 So I encourage, again, I, I try to live with this mantra, be hap- 1640 01:18:42.062 --> 01:18:45.916 We're alive in like the, the best time in the world, whether you like it or not. 1641 01:18:45.916 --> 01:18:48.239 Like, throughout history, like there's never been something that 1642 01:18:48.239 --> 01:18:52.293 we're going through, uh, that we're doing now, and I think we should, 1643 01:18:52.293 --> 01:18:54.962 yeah, take this opportunity and then be nice and understanding to 1644 01:18:54.962 --> 01:18:58.422 as many people as possible, make friends, and just enjoy life. 1645 01:18:58.445 --> 01:18:59.594 It goes by fast. 1646 01:18:59.994 --> 01:19:00.465 Yeah. 1647 01:19:00.865 --> 01:19:01.249 Yeah. 1648 01:19:01.649 --> 01:19:02.643 It definitely does. 1649 01:19:03.043 --> 01:19:08.411 All of us are on a, uh, a terminal path, but that terminal path can 1650 01:19:08.413 --> 01:19:11.001 be an exciting journey too, so- 1651 01:19:11.276 --> 01:19:11.612 Exactly 1652 01:19:11.662 --> 01:19:16.330 … Rob Greenlee: that's w- what I see the future looking like is Especially if we 1653 01:19:16.330 --> 01:19:23.266 can fully embrace what's, what changes are happening instead of fighting them 1654 01:19:23.473 --> 01:19:27.273 and really resisting these, these changes. 1655 01:19:27.274 --> 01:19:31.161 And I, I understand it comes from a certain uncertainty that 1656 01:19:31.161 --> 01:19:36.751 generates fear, and it creates, um, concern about, you know, being 1657 01:19:36.751 --> 01:19:38.213 able to think about the future. 1658 01:19:38.603 --> 01:19:42.875 And I think that's probably a good way to end the show tonight, is to talk 1659 01:19:42.886 --> 01:19:48.274 about that, that future, and that's what we tried to do tonight, is to 1660 01:19:48.274 --> 01:19:50.129 share our thoughts about the future. 1661 01:19:50.130 --> 01:19:54.481 And, and both of us don't have the probably the, the answer to that. 1662 01:19:54.540 --> 01:20:00.357 But there are clues, and a lot of these things, just based on my own 20 years 1663 01:20:00.358 --> 01:20:03.705 of being in the technology, following technology, and the same with you, is 1664 01:20:03.707 --> 01:20:05.829 that these things evolve over time. 1665 01:20:05.829 --> 01:20:08.401 They don't necessarily leap- 1666 01:20:08.819 --> 01:20:09.086 Mm-hmm 1667 01:20:09.100 --> 01:20:10.025 … Rob Greenlee: in big leaps. 1668 01:20:10.025 --> 01:20:16.245 So what we see today are little glimmers of what's, what's going to develop. 1669 01:20:16.646 --> 01:20:21.097 Um, we just don't know how far they're going to develop and in what 1670 01:20:21.098 --> 01:20:22.623 direction they're gonna develop. 1671 01:20:22.698 --> 01:20:28.407 It's all based on human interests and human participation and human involvement. 1672 01:20:28.766 --> 01:20:32.371 But I think the thing that I didn't like that I saw happen a couple weeks 1673 01:20:32.371 --> 01:20:37.030 ago is when all the AI leaders were talking about how AI's gonna kill us all. 1674 01:20:37.430 --> 01:20:40.541 I thought that that was, that was incorrect. 1675 01:20:40.941 --> 01:20:41.377 I, I agree. 1676 01:20:41.670 --> 01:20:42.899 Yeah. 1677 01:20:42.899 --> 01:20:42.929 Again, um- Yeah 1678 01:20:42.929 --> 01:20:46.286 … Yuri Kleban: another episode, but definitely for audience, and, and you 1679 01:20:46.314 --> 01:20:48.073 as well, Rob, like, I could take… 1680 01:20:48.267 --> 01:20:49.337 talk day and night. 1681 01:20:49.658 --> 01:20:52.106 I don't see it as black and white, like we talked about. 1682 01:20:52.106 --> 01:20:52.922 There's dangers. 1683 01:20:52.945 --> 01:20:53.796 We could talk about them. 1684 01:20:53.798 --> 01:20:55.663 There's things that are mitigating. 1685 01:20:55.942 --> 01:20:59.763 There's, th- there's just, it- it's so nuanced, but at the end of the day, I 1686 01:20:59.770 --> 01:21:03.480 do again wanna come back to the point, like, I don't see from everything I'm 1687 01:21:03.482 --> 01:21:05.255 sending, it's not the end of the world. 1688 01:21:05.570 --> 01:21:05.906 Mm-hmm. 1689 01:21:05.977 --> 01:21:07.620 AI is not going to kill us. 1690 01:21:07.634 --> 01:21:10.670 It's not gonna take your toaster and do aw- awful things. 1691 01:21:11.070 --> 01:21:15.757 It is building some of the coolest th- And people using AI, let's be very real. 1692 01:21:15.757 --> 01:21:15.767 Yeah. 1693 01:21:15.929 --> 01:21:19.241 People using AI- Yeah … are doing the coolest things ever, from content 1694 01:21:19.241 --> 01:21:23.766 creation to innovation, to solving these math problems, to literally 1695 01:21:23.767 --> 01:21:27.653 how many people have told me, "I use AI, and then it told me to go check 1696 01:21:27.664 --> 01:21:30.779 for this thing with a doctor, and I found out I have a very specific 1697 01:21:30.781 --> 01:21:32.147 cancer and I'm treating it early." 1698 01:21:32.148 --> 01:21:34.626 Like, it already is serving that stuff. 1699 01:21:34.656 --> 01:21:34.923 And- 1700 01:21:35.139 --> 01:21:35.296 Mm-hmm 1701 01:21:35.296 --> 01:21:37.828 … Yuri Kleban: anyone that, like, it's hard for me to just, like, 1702 01:21:37.828 --> 01:21:38.945 go with like, "Oh, it's horrible. 1703 01:21:38.945 --> 01:21:39.324 It sucks. 1704 01:21:39.324 --> 01:21:42.782 It's gonna kill us all," because I've already seen enough people- 1705 01:21:43.128 --> 01:21:44.442 Right … see the benefit of it. 1706 01:21:44.766 --> 01:21:44.785 Yeah. 1707 01:21:44.785 --> 01:21:47.645 And again, I'm not saying it's perfect. 1708 01:21:47.659 --> 01:21:50.008 There needs to be a lot of co- There's a lot of topics that 1709 01:21:50.008 --> 01:21:51.307 still need to be talked about. 1710 01:21:51.310 --> 01:21:54.062 Power, how do we, again, re- rebalance? 1711 01:21:54.064 --> 01:21:56.593 We don't want just a few people to have their hands on this. 1712 01:21:56.701 --> 01:21:58.673 How do we teach the next generation? 1713 01:21:58.673 --> 01:22:03.883 Because that's really about everyone in our ages are, like, up in arms- We, 1714 01:22:03.961 --> 01:22:07.470 the most important thing in my mind is get the kids, get them ready, make 1715 01:22:07.470 --> 01:22:11.406 sure it's, like, they're able to use it, empower them, show them the safety. 1716 01:22:11.406 --> 01:22:14.617 Just kind of like as people, we were growing up and they told us, like, 1717 01:22:14.787 --> 01:22:18.257 "Don't go on AOL and talk with a stranger and then go meet them in a store." 1718 01:22:18.259 --> 01:22:19.918 Like, we had to learn that. 1719 01:22:19.941 --> 01:22:21.378 Unfortunately, there was no rules. 1720 01:22:21.387 --> 01:22:24.205 E- eventually that became the law and, and, and also- Yeah … how 1721 01:22:24.205 --> 01:22:25.285 we, we interact as humans. 1722 01:22:25.551 --> 01:22:29.714 I think the same thing, like I would focus on Re- reminding people that 1723 01:22:29.717 --> 01:22:33.925 are more on the negative side is, like, it- once we can get it right, 1724 01:22:34.284 --> 01:22:37.436 'cause it's not perfect today, but I, I do think we can get it more right 1725 01:22:37.436 --> 01:22:41.619 than wrong, the kids, the future is really what's gonna benefit the most. 1726 01:22:41.636 --> 01:22:43.096 Forget about you and I even. 1727 01:22:43.096 --> 01:22:43.106 Right. 1728 01:22:43.106 --> 01:22:43.116 Right. 1729 01:22:43.450 --> 01:22:48.022 These are, like, and the next generation who are ideally looking at this as, 1730 01:22:48.051 --> 01:22:51.845 as creative outlets, as, as improving rather than harming and fighting 1731 01:22:51.845 --> 01:22:55.227 with each other, 'cause that's what I see mo- most people I know that go 1732 01:22:55.227 --> 01:22:58.978 to these chat, uh, LLMs, excuse me and they wanna create, do something. 1733 01:22:58.979 --> 01:23:01.342 They're not like, "How do I hurt my nextdoor neighbor?" 1734 01:23:01.349 --> 01:23:01.367 Right. 1735 01:23:01.372 --> 01:23:02.142 Like, that's- 1736 01:23:02.383 --> 01:23:04.019 Yeah, I mean, also wouldn't be there. 1737 01:23:04.049 --> 01:23:08.084 I mean, if you're open enough to get involved in these, you're probably going 1738 01:23:08.084 --> 01:23:13.631 to think of it as something that you can create something that's beneficial else 1739 01:23:13.631 --> 01:23:14.971 you wouldn't be there to begin with. 1740 01:23:15.163 --> 01:23:19.889 So, you know, y- Yuri, it was great to have you on the, on, on the show. 1741 01:23:19.904 --> 01:23:24.702 We kind of went all over the, the place tonight, but, you know, that's AI for you. 1742 01:23:24.702 --> 01:23:24.906 It- I told you that's 1743 01:23:24.922 --> 01:23:25.738 what's gonna happen. 1744 01:23:25.862 --> 01:23:27.866 It takes you all over the place, so… 1745 01:23:28.184 --> 01:23:30.523 And it's, and the opportunity is huge. 1746 01:23:30.563 --> 01:23:36.303 So, so if you wanted to follow the show a little closer, go to newmediashow.com 1747 01:23:36.343 --> 01:23:40.724 and I've got a newsletter in there that it comes out every week to support 1748 01:23:40.724 --> 01:23:44.721 an episode of the show, and it has some news headlines, and it has some 1749 01:23:44.721 --> 01:23:49.004 other capabilities, and it keeps you closer and connected to the show. 1750 01:23:49.509 --> 01:23:52.946 I'm gonna increasingly use that show or that newsletter to let 1751 01:23:52.947 --> 01:23:55.939 people know about the, the guests that I have coming up on the show. 1752 01:23:55.962 --> 01:24:01.361 So, but yeah, Yuri, it was great to have you on the show, and it, i- 1753 01:24:01.400 --> 01:24:05.112 is there a great place for somebody that's listening to this to, to go 1754 01:24:05.112 --> 01:24:07.562 and find you and connect with you? 1755 01:24:07.562 --> 01:24:09.629 Is it LinkedIn or where 1756 01:24:09.653 --> 01:24:09.673 is it? 1757 01:24:09.673 --> 01:24:09.683 Yes. 1758 01:24:09.683 --> 01:24:15.566 I, I got too late into the Twitter/X game, so I'm on LinkedIn, uh, Yuri Kleivan. 1759 01:24:15.869 --> 01:24:17.190 Definitely hit me up. 1760 01:24:17.365 --> 01:24:21.156 Always love talking with people who are trying to do something, 1761 01:24:21.191 --> 01:24:24.739 working on businesses, coming ideas, have questions about AI. 1762 01:24:24.768 --> 01:24:28.582 I, yeah, I love talking about it all because a- again, the conversation is 1763 01:24:28.582 --> 01:24:30.715 what fuels us and connects us as humans. 1764 01:24:31.185 --> 01:24:31.488 Yeah. 1765 01:24:31.488 --> 01:24:31.998 I agree. 1766 01:24:32.005 --> 01:24:32.473 I agree. 1767 01:24:32.476 --> 01:24:37.303 It's a, it's an exciting time, but it's also, as usual, it's always 1768 01:24:37.305 --> 01:24:38.971 a little scary, too, isn't it? 1769 01:24:39.371 --> 01:24:39.971 That's right. 1770 01:24:40.090 --> 01:24:40.189 That's right. 1771 01:24:40.589 --> 01:24:42.009 But that's what makes it interesting. 1772 01:24:42.417 --> 01:24:43.062 Exactly. 1773 01:24:43.483 --> 01:24:48.199 So anyway, well, thank you for watching this episode, whether it's 1774 01:24:48.215 --> 01:24:52.852 live right now or on demand later on as an audio and video podcast 1775 01:24:52.871 --> 01:24:57.929 on YouTube or LinkedIn or X or you know, or off of the newmediashow.com 1776 01:24:57.929 --> 01:24:58.470 website. 1777 01:24:58.504 --> 01:25:02.529 So you can get it all there, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all those places, too. 1778 01:25:02.532 --> 01:25:04.973 So Yuri, thank you so much. 1779 01:25:04.982 --> 01:25:05.005 Yeah. 1780 01:25:05.015 --> 01:25:07.782 I appreciate it, and good night, everybody, and thank you for 1781 01:25:07.787 --> 01:25:08.974 being here with us tonight. 1782 01:25:09.374 --> 01:25:09.762 Thank you.