podcast measurement

Podcasting Beyond the Download | Casey Adams, Listener.com #673

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Host, Rob Greenlee with #673 Guest Casey Adams, Lisener.comIn Episode 673 of the New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Casey Adams, founder and CEO of Listener.com and host of The Casey Adams Show, for a timely conversation about how podcasting, video, social content, advertising, and new media measurement are rapidly converging.

For more than 20 years, podcasting has relied heavily on RSS feeds, downloads, and audio-first measurement as the foundation of distribution and advertising value. That still matters, but the media environment around it has changed dramatically.

Shows now are distributed across Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, social video, newsletters, clips, livestreams, and direct audience communities. Audiences may call it all a podcast, even as the industry continues to debate its technical definition.

Casey brings a founder, creator, and investor perspective to the discussion. He started podcasting as a teenager, interviewing founders and entrepreneurs, and later built MediaKits.com before moving into podcast analytics with Listener.com. His current work focuses on helping modern publishers understand how a single episode performs across audio, long-form video, short-form clips, newsletters, and social platforms.

Rob and Casey explore why the term “podcast” now means different things to different groups. To many longtime industry professionals, podcasting still points back to RSS-based audio distribution. To many younger listeners and viewers, it means a format: a recurring show, often conversational, often video-enabled, and consumed wherever attention already exists.

The conversation centers on one of the biggest questions facing podcasting and new media right now:

How do you measure the true value of a show when the audience is no longer in one place?

Rob and Casey also discuss why the download can no longer carry the entire weight of podcast measurement.

A single episode may now generate value through an Apple Podcasts listen, a Spotify stream, a full YouTube view, a YouTube Short, a TikTok clip, a LinkedIn post, an X post, a newsletter mention, and a brand integration that travels across all of those surfaces. Each platform counts activity differently. Each platform has its own audience behavior. That makes reporting, sponsorship value, and campaign analysis more complex.

Casey explains Listener.com’s concept of episode clusters: grouping the full set of related content around one episode so publishers and advertisers can see the larger cross-platform reach and performance.

Instead of treating the audio file as the entire campaign, an episode cluster recognizes that one conversation can become long-form video, social clips, newsletter content, and multiple ad touchpoints.

We also discuss the rising influence of creator-led media companies. Examples like TBPN, Jomboy Media, Substack’s media activity, and venture-backed new media brands show how independent shows and creator-driven networks are increasingly competing with legacy media for attention, trust, and advertiser value.

The conversation explores why companies, CEOs, investors, and major brands now seek to control their own narrative through podcasts, owned shows, and trusted media relationships.

We also examine the advertising side of this shift. Brands want better campaign reporting, but they also want context. A host-read placement, a social clip, a full video episode, and a newsletter mention should not all be treated the same.

Modern publishers need tools that let them demonstrate the full value of their media ecosystem without flattening every metric into a single misleading number.

Meaning for creators. Being a podcaster may no longer fully describe the work involved. Modern show builders are becoming media operators. They need to understand production, audience behavior, platform distribution, brand positioning, analytics, content packaging, and trust. The technical meaning of podcasting still matters, but the audience meaning matters just as much now.

For creators, networks, agencies, and brands, Episode 673 offers a clear look at the next stage of podcasting: a media business built around trusted shows, distributed everywhere, measured more intelligently, and no longer limited to downloads.

Topics Covered in This Episode:

00:33 Why podcast measurement is changing
01:00 Moving beyond the download
01:44 RSS, streaming, and modern distribution challenges
02:42 Introducing Casey Adams of Listener.com
03:37 Casey Adams joins the show
04:17 What Listener.com is trying to solve
05:00 AI-powered analytics for modern podcast publishers
05:41 Casey’s podcasting origin story
06:30 Interviewing Larry King and learning from media legends
07:18 Larry King’s warning about rejecting new media trends
08:04 From MediaKits.com to Listener.com
09:15 Rob’s early podcasting and radio background
10:04 Why the industry struggles with change
11:00 Does Casey still consider himself a podcaster?
12:00 Podcasts as a format, not just a technology
13:10 YouTube, Spotify, and the expanded podcast ecosystem
14:34 Why modern shows must meet audiences where they are
15:37 The audience now defines what a podcast means
16:16 RSS audio vs the broader podcast perception
17:16 Apple HLS and the pressure on RSS
18:17 The industry needs to accept broader podcast usage
19:26 Younger audiences and podcast consumption habits
20:39 Larry King’s quote behind Listener.com
21:25 Why RSS is becoming less visible to creators and audiences
23:21 Respecting podcasting’s roots while accepting change
24:00 The Uber analogy for podcasting’s disruption
25:41 Journalists, creators, and independent media companies
27:49 Creator-led media and the rise of new media brands
28:33 Legacy media relevance is being challenged
30:13 TBPN and the new media company model
31:28 Treating a show like a full media ecosystem
32:36 Year-long sponsorships and category exclusivity
33:49 Why serious creators must think like media companies
35:19 How podcast analytics supports advertiser relationships
36:00 Silicon Valley’s renewed interest in “new media”
37:23 The pandemic pushed legacy media into creator workflows
38:16 Casey introduces the Listener.com platform
39:05 Jomboy Media and creator-led sports coverage
40:00 Episode clusters and cross-platform performance
41:00 Tracking long-form video, audio, and short-form clips
42:18 Episode reports for brands and publishers
43:05 Why every platform metric should be valued differently
44:00 How Listener.com supports campaign reporting
45:00 Aggregating metrics from multiple platforms
46:00 Audio, content, commerce, and newsletter integrations
47:00 Using AI to match clips to episodes
48:00 Listener AI and talking to your podcast data
49:23 Making podcast data easier to understand and share
50:00 Where podcast analytics and AI go next
51:28 AI can guide creators, but execution still wins
52:23 Using AI as a thought partner for content strategy
53:24 Why creators must keep improving their shows
54:47 What drives new media inspiration today?
56:01 Why companies want to control their narrative
57:15 CEOs, podcasts, and trusted long-form conversations
58:22 Substack, owned media, and creator platforms
59:21 New podcast metrics standards and platform conflicts
1:00:35 How different platforms count views and plays
1:02:16 Serving publishers while tracking industry standards
1:03:00 Why brands need better cross-platform campaign reports
1:04:28 Toward better host-read campaign reporting
1:05:14 How platform changes flow into Listener.com data
1:06:00 Why publishers should control their own data
1:07:00 Putting a show’s full value forward
1:08:03 Brand, trust, and modern podcast IP
1:09:34 OpenAI, TBPN, and strategic media investment
1:10:32 Why TBPN brought sponsors back
1:11:11 How media brands can help shift company narratives
1:12:15 New media as a strategic communications layer
1:14:00 Lessons from AI-generated podcast network messaging
1:14:46 The risk of platform influence after acquisition
1:16:00 Why the TBPN deal was more than a podcast deal
1:16:39 Will more companies buy or build media brands?
1:17:40 HubSpot, distribution, and trusted voices
1:18:08 Why creators must stay honest with audiences
1:19:40 Authenticity and audience trust in sponsorships
1:20:05 Casey’s closing thoughts on podcasting and new media
1:20:34 Rob’s closing view on podcasting as one lane in new media
1:21:41 How publishers can work with Listener.com
1:22:43 Networks, independent shows, and Listener.com’s go-to-market
1:23:56 Closing remarks and where to find the show

Guest Links: Casey Adams, Founder and CEO, Listener.com

Listener.com: https://listener.com
Casey Adams Show & Website: https://www.caseyadams.com
The Casey Adams Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-casey-adams-show/id1328795944
Casey Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casey-adams-430b3114a/
Casey Adams on X: https://x.com/CaseyAdams
Casey Adams on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casey/

Host: Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

Personal / AI Disclosure Note

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest’s. This article reflects my editorial direction and the substance of the conversation.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Podcast Index | RSS

Podcast (audio): Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | Podcast Index | RSS

Podcasting Is Not Broken. It Is Becoming Something Bigger

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Rob Greenlee - NewMediaShow.comBy Rob Greenlee

I do not believe podcasting is broken.

I also do not believe podcasting is outdated.

But I understand why some people are starting to say that. The medium is changing so fast right now that it can feel like the old definitions no longer fit what audiences and creators are actually doing.

That does not mean podcasting is dying. It means podcasting has reached a major inflection point.

For audiences, podcasts have become one of the main media habits in everyday life. People listen while driving, walking, working, exercising, relaxing, and doing all the things that make audio such a powerful companion medium. That part has not gone away. Audio remains deeply personal, flexible, and trusted.

But for many creators, the word “podcaster” no longer fully describes what they are building.

They are making shows.

They are producing conversations, video episodes, clips, livestreams, newsletters, communities, events, and social content. The podcast is still part of the system, but it is no longer always the whole identity.

That is the big shift.

The traditional definition of a podcast as an audio-first, RSS-distributed show remains important. It is the foundation of the medium. It gave podcasting its openness, portability, and independence. But that definition is increasingly becoming one part of a larger video-first creator strategy.

This is where some tension comes in.

Audio-first creators will continue to have large audiences. Many of the most trusted and successful shows will remain primarily audio-driven. There will always be room for audio-first storytelling, interviews, news, education, comedy, and commentary. Audio is not going away.

But audio-first alone may no longer be the path to the largest possible audience.

Discovery has shifted. Audience behavior has shifted. Monetization has shifted. Younger audiences often discover shows through video clips, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other social platforms before they ever subscribe to an RSS feed or follow a show in a traditional podcast app.

For many people, the first experience of a “podcast” is now a video moment.

That does not make it less of a podcast. It means the audience definition has expanded beyond the industry definition.

This is why I keep saying we are moving from “podcasts” into a broader “shows” era.

The show is the core intellectual property. The show is the brand. The show is the relationship with the audience. Audio, video, clips, newsletters, and community are all distribution expressions of that show.

That shift has real consequences for the entire industry.

Hosting companies have to think beyond audio file delivery. Apps have to think beyond audio playback. Ad platforms have to think beyond downloads. Measurement companies have to think beyond separate audio and video reports. Creators have to think beyond a single format and a single feed.

This is especially true as HLS video streaming begins to scale inside podcasting.

The Apple Podcasts shift toward HLS video streaming is a major signal. Video podcasting is no longer just about uploading a large MP4 file or posting a version on YouTube. It is moving toward modern streaming infrastructure, adaptive playback, dynamic ad possibilities, and more seamless switching between listening and viewing.

That means some of what we have historically called audio-only consumption may increasingly be delivered through video-enabled HLS streaming systems. A person may listen to the audio from a video podcast stream. They may start with video, switch to audio, or never look at the screen at all. The content experience becomes more fluid.

That creates a major measurement challenge.

The industry cannot keep treating audio and video metrics as if they live in separate worlds. Creators need to know the show’s total reach and value, not just the performance of a single format in a single app.

Downloads, streams, plays, views, watch time, listen time, completion, retention, subscribers, followers, and engagement all need to be consolidated into a single framework.

Right now, too much of the industry is still measuring yesterday’s format while the audience is already consuming tomorrow’s show.

This is not just a technical issue. It is a business issue.

If a creator has 50,000 audio downloads, 100,000 YouTube views, 25,000 Spotify video plays, 15,000 Apple video streams, and millions of short-form impressions, what is the actual size and value of that show?

The old answer was to separate all of that into different buckets.

The new answer has to be more unified.

Brands and sponsors want to understand total audience impact. Creators want to understand where trust, attention, and revenue are being created. Platforms want to prove value. Hosting companies want to stay relevant. Measurement providers want to remain credible.

That requires merged and consolidated metrics.

Podcasting has always struggled with measurement consistency, even in the audio-only era. Now video makes that challenge more complicated, but also more urgent.

The industry needs a better way to measure shows across formats, not just files across feeds.

This does not mean we abandon RSS. It does not mean we abandon audio. It does not mean every creator has to become a YouTuber or video personality.

It means podcasting has to evolve its infrastructure, language, and business model to align with what audiences are already doing.

The audience does not care whether the industry calls something a podcast, a video podcast, a show, a stream, or creator media.

They ONLY care whether it is useful, entertaining, trustworthy, and available where they already spend time.

That is the part we should pay attention to.

Podcasting is expanding.

It is expanding into video. It is expanding into streaming. It is expanding into social/YouTube discovery. It is expanding into creator-led media brands. It is expanding into AI-assisted and generated production and distribution. It is expanding into a world where the show matters more than the format.

The danger is not that podcasting is outdated.

The danger is that the industry keeps defending an old definition while the audience has already moved into a broader one.

The future of podcasting will still include audio-first shows, RSS feeds, open distribution, and traditional podcast apps. Those pieces still matter. But the growth edge of the medium is moving toward video-enabled, multi-format, cross-platform show experiences.

The inflection point.

– The creators who understand this will not stop being podcasters. They will become stronger show builders.

– The companies that understand this will not abandon podcasting. They will build the infrastructure for the next version.

– And the industry that understands this will stop asking whether podcasting is broken and start asking a better question:

– How do we preserve what made podcasting powerful while building the modern show-based media ecosystem it is clearly becoming?

About the Author

Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair, a global new media leader who bridges podcasting’s human roots with its AI-driven future. As founder of Trust Factor Lab and host of the “New Media Show” and “Spoken Human”, Rob helps creators start, grow, monetize, and future-proof their content. He’s held leadership roles at Microsoft, Spreaker, Libsyn, StreamYard, and PodcastOne, and serves as Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame. Learn more at RobGreenlee.com and join the Trust Factor Lab Creator/Podcast Services.

Personal note: I used AI tools to help organize this article and hand-edited it; the views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine. I have been working in podcasting and platform adoption for more than two decades, and this article reflects my own position. The original word choice was mine, and so is the clarification.

 

Podcasting’s Multi-Format Future | Sharon Taylor #659

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

Podcasting is entering a new phase, and this episode goes straight into the infrastructure, business models, and platform shifts shaping what comes next.

On episode 659 of The New Media Show, Host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee shares the microphone with Sharon Taylor, Chief Revenue Officer at Triton Digital (Spreaker & Omny Studio), for a deep conversation about where the podcasting market is heading right now.

Sharon brings years of experience from Omny Studio, Triton Digital, and Spreaker, making her one of the best people to help unpack what is changing across hosting, monetization, video, AI, advertiser demand, and measurement.

We talk through why podcasting is not simply becoming video-first, even as video becomes a bigger part of how shows are discovered and monetized.

Sharon makes a strong case that audio remains at the center of the medium, but the future is clearly becoming more multi-format. That means creators, publishers, and platforms need to think differently about how they distribute content, measure audience behavior, and build sustainable business models for both audio and video.

A big part of this conversation focuses on Triton Digital’s role in the market today and why its combination of Omny Studio, Spreaker, and broader ad tech infrastructure makes it an important player in podcasting’s next chapter.

Sharon explains the unique roots of Omny Studio as a platform built for large-scale broadcast and enterprise publishing needs, while Spreaker helped pioneer early podcast programmatic monetization for creators. That combination gives Triton a unique perspective on both professional publishing and creator-driven growth.

We also spend time on Apple’s HLS video move and what it may mean for podcasting’s future. Sharon shares how Triton had already been preparing for a broader video environment and why Apple’s support for HLS is such a meaningful shift.

We discuss how HLS could improve flexibility around delivery, ad insertion, and measurement, while still raising important questions about RSS, open distribution, and whether major platforms may slowly pull podcasting into more platform-specific publishing models over time.

Another major topic in this episode is trust.

From programmatic advertising to AI-generated content to labeling and transparency, Sharon and I explore how podcasting can continue to grow without losing the authentic connection that made the medium valuable in the first place.

We both agree that podcasting still has enormous strength as an audio-led medium, but the industry is now balancing openness, innovation, and monetization in ways that will define the next few years.

This is a wide-ranging and important discussion for anyone watching the evolution of podcasting, video, ad tech, platform power, and the future of open media.

Topics covered

– Why Triton Digital matters in podcasting right now
– Sharon Taylor’s path from Omny Studio to Triton CRO
– What Triton is seeing in audio versus video audience behavior
– Why podcasting is becoming multi-format, not simply video-first
– How Omny Studio and Spreaker fit different parts of the publishing market
– What Apple’s HLS video move changes for publishers and hosting platforms
– Why advertiser confidence and better measurement matter more than ever
– The future of RSS, open podcasting, and platform fragmentation
– How AI-generated content is affecting publishing growth and industry trust
– Where Sharon sees the next big opportunities for podcast growth

Guest

Sharon Taylor is the Chief Revenue Officer at Triton Digital. She was appointed to the CRO role in August 2025 after helping lead Triton’s podcast and content delivery efforts. Before joining Triton, Sharon was CEO of Omny Studio and played a key role in building it into one of the leading enterprise podcast platforms before its acquisition by Triton Digital.

Triton Digital: https://www.tritondigital.com/
Spreaker: https://www.spreaker.com/
Omny Studio: https://omnystudio.com/

Host

Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer, Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame, and leader behind Trust Factor Lab and Trust Creators Community at M3Linked.

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com/
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/
Trust Creators Community: https://m3linked.com/

Supporters:

Get a $10 StreamYard Video Recording and Live Streaming tool Discount using this LINK – https://streamyard.com/pal/c/5606177711325184

Podcasting pros use Podpage – Build a podcast or video show website that updates itself and showcases your show beautifully. Start for just $12/month! –>podpage.com?via=adore

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Podcast Index | RSS

Podcast (audio): Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | Podcast Index | RSS