podcast metrics

The Future of Media | Leo Laporte, TWiT.tv #672

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

In Episode 672 of the New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Leo Laporte, founder and owner of the TWiT Podcast Network, longtime technology broadcaster, and 2015 Podcast Hall of Famer. 

He launched TWiT in 2005 and built one of the earliest independent technology media networks around a simple idea: make strong shows, distribute them everywhere the audience wants to watch or listen, and build a real relationship with the people who return every week.

Leo has spent decades at the center of the shift from broadcast radio and cable television into online shows, podcasts, livestreams, video, and creator-led media. 

This conversation looks at where that model is heading now.

The word “podcast” helped define an era of downloadable audio, RSS feeds, and iPods. Today, audiences find shows through YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Netflix, social platforms, livestreams, clips, newsletters, and communities.

Most viewers or listeners do not care how a show is technically delivered. They care whether it is easy to find, worth their attention, and made by people they trust.

Rob and Leo discuss why the technical barrier to starting a show has fallen so far, while the challenge of creating meaningful content has never gone away. Anyone can publish.

Building a show that earns repeat attention takes perspective, consistency, subject knowledge, and a genuine relationship with an audience.

Leo reflects on TWiT’s early video strategy, its experiments with live 24/7 programming, and the importance of creating a sense of place around a media brand.

Video can deepen audience connection, while audio remains one of the most personal forms of media because it travels with listeners through daily life.

The discussion also explores the growing complexity of distribution and measurement. Audio and video are increasingly becoming one media experience, yet advertisers still face fragmented metrics across RSS, YouTube, streaming platforms, and social video.

Rob and Leo talk about Apple HLS video, the gap between download metrics and actual consumption, the limitations of existing IAB measurement standards, and why advertiser confidence still often comes down to audience fit and trusted host-read relationships.

A strong audience relationship has more long-term value than a number on a dashboard that may not fully reflect who watched, listened, responded, or bought.

Leo also shares his view that AI is a major structural technology transition. TWiT has expanded its coverage through Intelligent Machines, looking at AI, robotics, and the impact these tools will have on work, media, and daily life.

AI can help creators research, edit, generate visuals, improve production workflows, translate content, and extend the usefulness of existing media. It can also generate massive volumes of generic content, clone voices, and make it harder for audiences to know what is real.

Rob and Leo discuss whether clearly identified and certified human-led media may become more valuable as synthetic content becomes harder to distinguish from authentic work. They agree that human perspective, lived experience, spontaneity, and community will continue to matter deeply in a media environment crowded with automated output.

The episode closes with a look at the next generation of media habits. Leo points to the rise of short-form scrolling, social video, and new creator business models, while also making the case for long-form conversations and communities that bring people together instead of pushing them further apart.

For creators and media companies, the path forward is still clear: build work that people value, meet the audience where they are, stay flexible as platforms change, and create relationships strong enough to survive the next technology shift.

Topic Chapter Time Stamp Markers:

00:00 — Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 672
Rob Greenlee introduces Leo Laporte and sets up the episode around online new media, podcasting, video, AI, and where media is heading next.

02:15 — Leo Laporte Joins the Conversation
Leo reflects on how long he and Rob have been part of the early era of podcasting and online media.

02:45 — Is It Still New Media?
Rob and Leo discuss whether “new media” still works as a term, and why podcasting may now be part of a much larger media category.

03:30 — Why Leo Wanted to Call Podcasts “Netcasts”
Leo explains why he resisted the term “podcast” early on and why he still thinks creators are really making shows.

04:35 — Podcasting Beyond the Download
The conversation moves into YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, RSS, streaming, and why the audience cares more about access than the delivery format.

05:25 — Be Everywhere the Audience Wants You
Leo explains one of TWiT’s core decisions: distribute content wherever listeners and viewers want to consume it.

06:10 — Discovery Is the New Challenge
Podcasting is easier to access than ever, but harder to discover because audiences now have millions of choices.

07:35 — Why Starting Is Easy but Building a Show Is Hard
Leo explains that technical barriers have fallen, but the real challenge remains content, authenticity, and audience connection.

09:20 — Talent, Audience, and the Return of Media Gatekeeping
Rob and Leo discuss whether attention is consolidating again around fewer large creators and channels.

10:25 — Audience Size vs Real Business Value
Leo separates building an audience from building a media business and explains why YouTube monetization still requires scale.

11:05 — Radio, Podcasting, and the Early TWiT Model
Leo talks about his radio background, his first podcast from 2004, and how broadcasting and podcasting share the same core idea.

12:05 — The Brick House Studio and Legitimacy
Leo explains why TWiT built a large studio: to show advertisers and audiences that online media could be a serious media business.

13:05 — Video Was Always Part of the Plan
Rob and Leo talk about how TWiT was doing video years before the current “video podcasting” push.

13:40 — Audio Intimacy vs Video Presence
Leo explains why radio creates intimacy, while video adds place, presence, and a different kind of audience relationship.

16:05 — TWiT as a Lean-Back Media Network
Leo describes his early vision for TWiT as a low-cost version of CNN or CNBC for technology coverage.

17:00 — 24/7 Streaming and Live Community
The conversation covers TWiT’s 24/7 stream, live programming, behind-the-scenes feel, and why raw authenticity helped the brand.

18:40 — Why Technology Was the Right Beat
Leo explains why covering technology kept TWiT relevant through major shifts from the iPhone to AI.

20:35 — AI as the Next Major Technology Shift
Leo compares AI to structural technology changes and explains why he sees it as a major long-term shift.

22:20 — From This Week in Google to Intelligent Machines
Leo discusses rebranding a TWiT show around AI and robotics as the center of technology coverage moved.

23:15 — Can AI Create Real Media?
Rob asks Leo about AI-generated content, and Leo explains why he still believes humans will remain central to media creation.

24:20 — AI Tools, Voice Cloning, and Advertising
Leo talks about using AI tools, ElevenLabs voice cloning, and the potential for AI-generated ad reads.

25:25 — Why Human Spontaneity Still Matters
Rob and Leo discuss whether AI clones can capture the same timing, originality, and human presence as real creators.

26:35 — Zune, Apple, Siri, and AI Adoption
A lighter segment on Zune leads into Apple’s AI plans and how mainstream users may begin to understand AI’s practical value.

27:45 — AI Backlash, Jobs, and Human Value
Rob and Leo discuss AI anxiety, job disruption, retraining, and why people need to understand where their human value lies.

29:30 — Will the Word Podcast Survive?
Rob asks whether “podcast” will remain the right term as audiences define the medium more than creators or platforms do.

30:40 — Shows, Creators, and Human Creation
Leo argues that “show” may be the better word and reflects on why humans are naturally driven to create.

33:05 — Apple HLS and the Audio-Video Merge
Rob and Leo discuss Apple HLS, streaming formats, video RSS, audio RSS, and the shift toward combined audio-video experiences.

37:05 — Measurement Across Audio, Video, and Platforms
The conversation turns to the challenge of consistent measurement across RSS, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and other platforms.

38:20 — Host-Read Ads, Video Ads, and Dynamic Insertion
Leo explains how TWiT handles baked-in host reads, dynamic ad insertion, and the coming shift toward video ad insertion.

39:10 — The Problem with Podcast Metrics
Leo explains why measuring podcast consumption remains messy, especially across corporate networks, mobile listening, and YouTube.

41:10 — Why Attribution Still Falls Short
Rob and Leo discuss why promo codes, attribution links, and dashboards do not fully capture real audience behavior.

43:15 — Trust as the Real Advertising Asset
Leo explains why TWiT’s value to advertisers comes from trusted hosts, engaged audiences, and long-term sponsor relationships.

45:00 — Podcasting 2.0 and Shared Economic Models
Rob introduces the idea of shared value between advertisers, apps, creators, and listeners, and Leo reacts to the concept.

46:15 — Oxford Road, Dan Granger, and New Metrics
Rob brings up Dan Granger’s work around new podcast measurement standards and the 30-second vs 60-second listener discussion.

47:35 — Why Creator-Side Metrics Matter
Leo explains why he is skeptical of advertiser-driven measurement systems and why inflated podcast numbers damaged trust.

49:15 — Subscriptions, Membership, and Reducing Ad Dependence
Leo explains why audience-supported media would be ideal and how TWiT’s paid club fits into the business model.

50:20 — The Art of the Host-Read Ad
Rob and Leo discuss why Leo’s long-form host reads worked, including the value of making ads useful and content-like.

52:45 — Where Media Consumption Is Heading
Rob asks Leo what may come next in media, and Leo points to short-form scrolling, TikTok, Instagram, and changing audience behavior.

54:00 — Leo’s Son, TikTok, and the Next Generation of Media
Leo shares how his son built a major food audience through short-form video and turned it into a restaurant and cookbook business.

55:35 — Long-Form Still Has a Future
Leo argues that long-form shows can still matter if they create value, community, and real connection.

56:45 — Community as the Core of Media
Leo explains why connection and community remain the most important part of media, no matter how platforms change.

57:30 — The Risk of Doom Scrolling
Rob and Leo discuss short-form addiction, dopamine loops, and how constant scrolling can disconnect people from real community.

58:35 — AI Slop and Synthetic Video
The discussion moves to AI-generated video content, fantasy media, and the question of whether audiences will tire of low-quality synthetic output.

59:35 — Human Clones, AI Presence, and Authenticity
Rob asks whether AI versions of creators could extend their presence, and Leo reflects on voice clones, soul, and human perspective.

1:00:35 — Human-Made Media May Become More Important
Rob suggests that labeling human-made content may become more valuable as AI content grows more convincing.

1:01:20 — Remembering Todd Cochrane and Podcast Hall of Fame
Rob and Leo reflect on Todd Cochrane, the Podcast Hall of Fame, and the early podcasting community.

1:03:10 — The Hall of Fame, Dave Winer, and Joe Rogan
Leo and Rob talk about the Podcast Hall of Fame, Dave Winer, Joe Rogan, and recognizing major contributors to podcasting.

1:04:45 — Closing Thoughts and Where to Find the Show
Rob thanks Leo and closes the episode with where to find past episodes and future New Media Show content.

Guest Links: Leo Laporte, Founder and Owner, TWiT Podcast Network

TWiT Podcast Network: https://twit.tv/
Leo Laporte Website: https://leo.fm/
Leo Laporte on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leo-laporte-8aa224309/
Leo Laporte on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LeoLaporte
Intelligent Machines: https://twit.tv/shows/intelligent-machines
This Week in Tech: https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-tech

Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com/
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/

AI Disclosure Note:

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode, description, and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest’s. This article reflects my editorial direction and the substance of the conversation.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Podcast Index | RSS

Podcast (audio): Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | Podcast Index | RSS

Podcasting Is Not Broken. It Is Becoming Something Bigger

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Rob Greenlee - NewMediaShow.comBy Rob Greenlee

I do not believe podcasting is broken.

I also do not believe podcasting is outdated.

But I understand why some people are starting to say that. The medium is changing so fast right now that it can feel like the old definitions no longer fit what audiences and creators are actually doing.

That does not mean podcasting is dying. It means podcasting has reached a major inflection point.

For audiences, podcasts have become one of the main media habits in everyday life. People listen while driving, walking, working, exercising, relaxing, and doing all the things that make audio such a powerful companion medium. That part has not gone away. Audio remains deeply personal, flexible, and trusted.

But for many creators, the word “podcaster” no longer fully describes what they are building.

They are making shows.

They are producing conversations, video episodes, clips, livestreams, newsletters, communities, events, and social content. The podcast is still part of the system, but it is no longer always the whole identity.

That is the big shift.

The traditional definition of a podcast as an audio-first, RSS-distributed show remains important. It is the foundation of the medium. It gave podcasting its openness, portability, and independence. But that definition is increasingly becoming one part of a larger video-first creator strategy.

This is where some tension comes in.

Audio-first creators will continue to have large audiences. Many of the most trusted and successful shows will remain primarily audio-driven. There will always be room for audio-first storytelling, interviews, news, education, comedy, and commentary. Audio is not going away.

But audio-first alone may no longer be the path to the largest possible audience.

Discovery has shifted. Audience behavior has shifted. Monetization has shifted. Younger audiences often discover shows through video clips, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other social platforms before they ever subscribe to an RSS feed or follow a show in a traditional podcast app.

For many people, the first experience of a “podcast” is now a video moment.

That does not make it less of a podcast. It means the audience definition has expanded beyond the industry definition.

This is why I keep saying we are moving from “podcasts” into a broader “shows” era.

The show is the core intellectual property. The show is the brand. The show is the relationship with the audience. Audio, video, clips, newsletters, and community are all distribution expressions of that show.

That shift has real consequences for the entire industry.

Hosting companies have to think beyond audio file delivery. Apps have to think beyond audio playback. Ad platforms have to think beyond downloads. Measurement companies have to think beyond separate audio and video reports. Creators have to think beyond a single format and a single feed.

This is especially true as HLS video streaming begins to scale inside podcasting.

The Apple Podcasts shift toward HLS video streaming is a major signal. Video podcasting is no longer just about uploading a large MP4 file or posting a version on YouTube. It is moving toward modern streaming infrastructure, adaptive playback, dynamic ad possibilities, and more seamless switching between listening and viewing.

That means some of what we have historically called audio-only consumption may increasingly be delivered through video-enabled HLS streaming systems. A person may listen to the audio from a video podcast stream. They may start with video, switch to audio, or never look at the screen at all. The content experience becomes more fluid.

That creates a major measurement challenge.

The industry cannot keep treating audio and video metrics as if they live in separate worlds. Creators need to know the show’s total reach and value, not just the performance of a single format in a single app.

Downloads, streams, plays, views, watch time, listen time, completion, retention, subscribers, followers, and engagement all need to be consolidated into a single framework.

Right now, too much of the industry is still measuring yesterday’s format while the audience is already consuming tomorrow’s show.

This is not just a technical issue. It is a business issue.

If a creator has 50,000 audio downloads, 100,000 YouTube views, 25,000 Spotify video plays, 15,000 Apple video streams, and millions of short-form impressions, what is the actual size and value of that show?

The old answer was to separate all of that into different buckets.

The new answer has to be more unified.

Brands and sponsors want to understand total audience impact. Creators want to understand where trust, attention, and revenue are being created. Platforms want to prove value. Hosting companies want to stay relevant. Measurement providers want to remain credible.

That requires merged and consolidated metrics.

Podcasting has always struggled with measurement consistency, even in the audio-only era. Now video makes that challenge more complicated, but also more urgent.

The industry needs a better way to measure shows across formats, not just files across feeds.

This does not mean we abandon RSS. It does not mean we abandon audio. It does not mean every creator has to become a YouTuber or video personality.

It means podcasting has to evolve its infrastructure, language, and business model to align with what audiences are already doing.

The audience does not care whether the industry calls something a podcast, a video podcast, a show, a stream, or creator media.

They ONLY care whether it is useful, entertaining, trustworthy, and available where they already spend time.

That is the part we should pay attention to.

Podcasting is expanding.

It is expanding into video. It is expanding into streaming. It is expanding into social/YouTube discovery. It is expanding into creator-led media brands. It is expanding into AI-assisted and generated production and distribution. It is expanding into a world where the show matters more than the format.

The danger is not that podcasting is outdated.

The danger is that the industry keeps defending an old definition while the audience has already moved into a broader one.

The future of podcasting will still include audio-first shows, RSS feeds, open distribution, and traditional podcast apps. Those pieces still matter. But the growth edge of the medium is moving toward video-enabled, multi-format, cross-platform show experiences.

The inflection point.

– The creators who understand this will not stop being podcasters. They will become stronger show builders.

– The companies that understand this will not abandon podcasting. They will build the infrastructure for the next version.

– And the industry that understands this will stop asking whether podcasting is broken and start asking a better question:

– How do we preserve what made podcasting powerful while building the modern show-based media ecosystem it is clearly becoming?

About the Author

Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair, a global new media leader who bridges podcasting’s human roots with its AI-driven future. As founder of Trust Factor Lab and host of the “New Media Show” and “Spoken Human”, Rob helps creators start, grow, monetize, and future-proof their content. He’s held leadership roles at Microsoft, Spreaker, Libsyn, StreamYard, and PodcastOne, and serves as Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame. Learn more at RobGreenlee.com and join the Trust Factor Lab Creator/Podcast Services.

Personal note: I used AI tools to help organize this article and hand-edited it; the views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine. I have been working in podcasting and platform adoption for more than two decades, and this article reflects my own position. The original word choice was mine, and so is the clarification.