Liquid Content Era Needs New Measurement | Steven Goldstein, Amplifi Media #680

August 10, 2026August 10, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest Steven Goldstein, Founder and CEO, Amplifi Media In Episode 680 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Steven Goldstein, founder and CEO of Amplifi Media, for a timely, future-leaning discussion.

We have entered the Liquid Content Era.

A podcast conversation can now become an audio episode, full-length YouTube video, Spotify video, Apple Podcasts video, vertical clips, social posts, articles, newsletters, searchable transcripts, and potentially AI-discovered answers. The underlying content may be the same, but the way people encounter and consume it varies by platform.

That creates an enormous opportunity for creators. It also creates a measurement problem.

Podcasting built much of its advertising business around the download. That metric helped turn an emerging medium into a legitimate advertising marketplace, but Steven argues that it no longer adequately represents how audiences consume modern shows.

Downloads were created in an era when bandwidth was limited and podcast applications often downloaded episodes to devices before the listener played them. Today, streaming is increasingly immediate, video consumption is growing, audiences move between devices, and clips can sometimes reach more people than the original episode.

The question is no longer simply: How many times was the podcast downloaded?

The better question may be: How many people actually listened to, watched, encountered the advertising, and engaged with the creator’s content across the entire media ecosystem?

Why advertisers need this change.

Large brands already buy television, web, streaming video, social, and other digital media through dashboards that provide comparable impression-based reporting. Podcasting remains fragmented across RSS analytics, platform dashboards, YouTube views, Spotify data, and different definitions of what constitutes meaningful exposure.

That fragmentation makes podcast media harder to buy at scale.

Steven explains that advertisers do not want separate teams manually reconciling podcast audio, video, clips, and platform metrics.

If podcasting wants to attract substantially more advertising investment, it needs to fit more easily into the systems marketers already use.

That leads into one of the episode’s central topics: the AMP Accords.

The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting was formed to address three persistent problems:

Defining a podcast
Standardizing exposure metrics across platforms
Creating a more consistent way to evaluate advertising effectiveness.

The AMP Accords describe their goal as establishing cross-platform measurement standards spanning open RSS and closed platforms.

One of the biggest proposed shifts is moving toward a 30-second play as a standardized exposure metric across audio and video.

Steven is less concerned about whether 30 seconds ultimately proves to be the perfect number than he is about establishing a common starting point.

Media measurement has always evolved.

Steven draws on his experience in radio, where audience measurement moved from handwritten listening diaries to electronic Portable People Meters. The change was disruptive. Some formats gained audience under the new methodology, and others lost it. But advertisers demanded better information, and the industry eventually adapted.

Podcasting is facing a similar moment.

The industry should not allow the pursuit of a perfect measurement system to delay the adoption of a more useful one.

The AMP framework also addresses advertising impressions and audience measurement. That matters because an advertiser ultimately wants to know whether someone actually received an advertising message, not simply whether a media file was automatically delivered to a device.

Rob and Steven discuss the tension this creates for established podcast measurement.

Some publishers remain strongly committed to the download because it has provided consistency and an open measurement methodology for many years. Steven gives the download credit for helping build the podcast advertising business but believes the medium now needs to move forward.

The shift becomes even more important when video enters the equation.

YouTube has become a major podcast-consumption platform with sophisticated analytics on views, watch time, audience behavior, retention, and discovery.

Spotify has added video.

Apple is expanding its video capabilities through HLS. Meanwhile, audiences increasingly move fluidly between audio and video rather than seeing them as completely separate media products.

This raises another difficult question:

What exactly is a podcast now?

The AMP Accords propose a broad podcast definition that encompasses audio or video and open or closed distribution, provided the program remains meaningful without requiring constant visual attention.

Steven likes the basic framework but emphasizes that audiences will ultimately shape the word’s meaning.

People already call shows “podcasts” based on format and experience rather than on technical infrastructure. Most listeners do not know whether a show uses RSS feeds, direct platform uploads, streaming video, or another delivery method.

Rob raises a concern about defining podcasting too strongly through an audio lens.

If a video must always function perfectly with the viewer’s eyes closed, does that discourage creators from investing in richer visual storytelling?

That question becomes increasingly important as video production matures.

A modern video podcast can include visual demonstrations, graphics, archival material, set design, screen sharing, camera movement, and other elements that provide additional value to the viewer. Rob argues that creators should retain the freedom to build excellent audio and excellent video experiences, even when the two versions are not identical.

The discussion then moves to another major part of liquid content: short-form video.

Shorts or Clips were initially treated primarily as promotional tools designed to push people toward the full episode. That assumption is changing.

Some audience members may never consume the full show. They may know a creator entirely through Shorts, Reels, TikTok, or other excerpts.

Steven describes this as both an opportunity and a potential problem.

If a creator publishes the four best moments from an hour-long conversation, some viewers may decide those clips provide everything they wanted from the episode.

That means short-form may represent a separate audience, not simply a funnel into long-form media.

At the same time, social clips have become an increasingly important discovery mechanism.

Creators cannot simply ignore the places where audiences spend their time.

That is the essence of liquid content: the audience determines where and how the media gets consumed.

Artificial intelligence adds another layer.

Steven believes creators should increasingly think beyond traditional SEO, Search Engine Optimization, toward AEO, Answer Engine Optimization.

AI systems are increasingly becoming discovery engines themselves. Instead of searching through a list of websites or podcast episodes, a user may ask an AI system a specific question and receive a direct answer assembled from available sources.

That shift could be especially valuable for niche creators.

A podcast with deep authority in a narrow subject may become an important source of AI-generated answers if its content is well-structured, transcribed, accessible, and clearly associated with expertise in that category.

Rob expands the discussion into recommendation systems.

YouTube already uses AI extensively to determine which content should be presented to which audience. Similar systems will increasingly influence discovery throughout digital media.

That creates a harder competitive environment.

Steven argues that mediocre content will be crushed. As audiences face effectively unlimited choices and algorithms become better at filtering those choices, simply producing acceptable content may no longer be enough. Shows need differentiation, relevance, expertise, strong personalities, or storytelling that holds attention.

That does not mean every successful podcast needs millions of listeners.

Steven points to niche podcasts serving highly specific professional communities. A show about HVAC systems may never become a mainstream entertainment hit, but it can still become an extremely valuable business if it reaches the right technicians, manufacturers, buyers, and industry decision-makers.

Influence within a valuable niche can matter more than raw audience scale.

The conversation closes by examining the tension between short-form and long-form media.

Consumers are time-starved.

Summaries, clips, AI-generated takeaways, and compressed content are becoming increasingly useful.

Yet long-form is not disappearing.

Joe Rogan, Acquired, Dan Carlin, and other successful long-form creators demonstrate that audiences will still spend hours with content when the storytelling, expertise, personality, or subject deserves the investment.

The real challenge is earning the audience’s time.

In the Liquid Content Era, creators are no longer simply publishing episodes. They are building adaptable media assets that can move across platforms, formats, screens, algorithms, and audiences.

The measurement systems now need to catch up.

Topics Covered in This Episode:
-What Steven Goldstein means by the Liquid Content Era
-Why one piece of content now becomes many media products
-Why the podcast download is becoming less representative of consumption
-What podcasting can learn from radio and television measurement
-Why advertisers need unified cross-platform metrics
-The AMP Accords and the future of podcast measurement
-The proposed 30-second play standard
-Plays, audience, ad impressions, and ad audience
-Audio versus video measurement
-Apple HLS, YouTube, Spotify, and platform competition
-Why the definition of a podcast continues to evolve
-Whether video podcasts need to work with the viewer’s eyes closed
-The difference between clipping content and creating for vertical video
-Why clips may represent a separate audience
-AI and Answer Engine Optimization
-How algorithms increasingly control media discovery
-Why mediocre content faces greater pressure
-High-value niche content versus mass audience scale
-What it takes to create a hit today
-Why long-form content can still win

Chapter Time Stamp Markers
00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 680
00:36 The Liquid Content Era needs new measurement
01:10 Introducing Steven Goldstein of Amplifi Media
02:07 Why media has entered the Liquid Content Era
03:18 The New York Times as a liquid content example
04:41 Podcasting moves from audio into multimedia
05:29 Video was always part of podcasting
06:22 Why the download originally made sense
07:13 Streaming changes how podcast consumption is measured
08:08 What podcasting can learn from radio measurement
09:11 From listening diaries to electronic measurement
10:00 Why advertisers need podcasting inside their dashboards
11:05 Audio and video buying remain separated at agencies
12:06 How television moved toward impression-based measurement
13:13 Short-form video enters the podcast media mix
14:12 Introducing the AMP Accords
15:08 What the AMP Accords propose
17:03 What AMP got right and what could go wrong
18:41 Why 30 seconds is a starting point, not the final answer
20:06 Moving beyond the download
21:23 Downloads do not always equal actual listening
22:03 The IAB and industry resistance to changing measurement
23:20 Some shows will gain, and others will lose under better metrics
24:18 Why Steven believes the download cannot be the future
25:11 Consumer behavior is forcing podcasting to change
26:02 Vertical video becomes a major media business
27:01 Can YouTube, Spotify, and Apple align around new metrics?
29:16 Comparing 30-second and 60-second exposure
31:07 Plays, audience, ad impressions, and advertiser needs
32:16 Why advertisers dislike hidden podcast audience numbers
33:07 Measurement matters differently for niche podcasts
34:19 How audiences move between audio and video
36:05 Should audio and video come from the same media file?
37:02 Why measurement does not need to be perfect to improve
38:16 Liquid content keeps expanding into new formats
39:14 What qualifies as a podcast now?
40:02 The audience may ultimately define podcasting
41:35 Does “eyes closed” unfairly prioritize audio?
43:05 Could the new definition weaken video creativity?
44:31 Separate audio and video podcast experiences
46:07 Vertical video versus automatically generated clips
46:52 Are clips replacing the full episode?
48:04 Short-form audiences may be entirely different
49:00 AI enters the Liquid Content Era
49:28 SEO shifts toward Answer Engine Optimization
50:27 AI becomes the first layer of media discovery
51:13 Algorithms judge what audiences see
53:04 Why mediocre content will be crushed
54:02 What qualifies as quality content?
55:04 Niche media does not need mass scale
57:07 How specialized podcasts can build valuable businesses
58:38 Why podcast creation remains flat despite creator growth
1:00:16 Creators no longer need traditional media gatekeepers
1:01:21 What the COVID podcast boom taught the industry
1:02:27 High-value content and why hits are hard
1:03:05 Differentiation as the foundation of a successful show
1:05:05 What television can teach podcasters about format innovation
1:06:22 Why creators compete for increasingly limited audience time
1:07:34 Short-form versus long-form content
1:08:22 Why people increasingly use AI to summarize long content
1:09:08 Joe Rogan, Acquired, and why long-form still succeeds
1:10:05 Gen Z will consume long content when it earns the time
1:11:01 Structured YouTube content versus podcast conversations
1:13:00 Final thoughts on the changing New Media landscape
1:14:00 Where to find The New Media Show

Guest: Steven Goldstein, Founder and CEO, Amplifi Media

Amplifi Media: https://www.amplifimedia.com
About Steven Goldstein: https://www.amplifimedia.com/about
Steven Goldstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-goldstein-a057b54
Amplifi Media on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/amplifi-media

Steven Goldstein is founder and CEO of Amplifi Media and teaches The Business of Podcasting at NYU. His current work focuses heavily on the shift toward cross-platform audio, video, and social distribution, as well as what he describes as the Liquid Content Era.

AMP Accords

Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting: https://ampaccords.com

The AMP Accords focus on three areas: standardizing impression metrics, developing cross-platform performance measurement, and creating a common industry definition of a podcast.

Host, Rob Greenlee, and New Media Show Links

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure Note:

AI tools were used to create a video and audio introduction clip, episode images, help organize and edit this episode and summarize its description, and create chapter markers from the completed Episode 680 transcript. The recorded conversation, human performances, guest perspectives, editorial direction, final review, and responsibility for the published content remain with actual humans Rob Greenlee and Steven Goldstein.

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How Brands Buy Creator Media | Dan Granger, Oxford Road #677

July 26, 2026July 12, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

In Episode 677 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Dan Granger, founder and CEO of Oxford Road, for a detailed conversation about how personality-led media is changing what brands buy, how audiences are measured, and what the podcast industry must do to support its next stage of growth.

Audiences increasingly follow people rather than traditional media channels.

A trusted personality can carry an audience across podcasts, YouTube, livestreams, newsletters, social platforms, communities, events, and direct business relationships.

Advertisers, however, still tend to purchase and measure those formats as separate media channels.

That disconnect is becoming one of the largest challenges facing creator media. A creator may record a single conversation and distribute it across multiple platforms, yet each platform reports exposure differently. Advertisers are then left trying to compare downloads, streams, video views, watch time, impressions, attribution data, and host-read performance without a consistent standard.

Dan has spent his career connecting advertisers with personality-driven media. Oxford Road now describes its work as building performance systems across audio, video, creator, and programmatic media, with Dan serving as the company’s CEO.

The conversation begins with Oxford Road’s growing investment in bringing brands, creators, platforms, and media leaders together in person.

Dan explains how the company’s CAO Summit developed from the idea of a “Chief Audio Officer,” the person inside a brand responsible for making audio advertising work. That responsibility may belong to a founder, marketing leader, media buyer, or growth executive rather than someone with a formal audio title.

The CAO Summit was designed as a peer-learning environment where advertisers could speak openly with other advertisers about measurement, attribution, creative performance, and the practical problems preventing brands from spending more in podcasts and creator media. Oxford Road continues to position the CAO Summit as a meeting point for the marketers, platforms, and creators shaping what it calls “Podcast+” media.

They also discuss the Independent Podcast and Creator Awards, also known as the Indie PaC Awards. The program was created to recognize independently owned creators and shows at a time when consolidation continues across podcasting and digital media.

Dan argues that independent creators remain central to the value of podcasting.

Creators who maintain closer relationships with their audiences, retain more editorial control, and deliver strong results for advertisers. Oxford Road’s own published ORBIT rankings show that independent shows account for a large share of its strongest-performing podcast inventory.

Defining an independent creator is difficult, though.

A creator may own the intellectual property while accepting a minimum guarantee from a platform. A show may be represented by a large network without being owned by that company. A successful personality may have substantial corporate support while retaining full editorial control.

The Indie PaC criteria attempt to consider who owns the content, whether the show publishes consistently, and whether the podcast or creator channel is a central part of the person’s business rather than a side project created primarily to support an existing celebrity career. The inaugural awards were announced as an event focused on creator ownership and independently produced media.

That discussion leads into the episode’s central theme: personalities are becoming media businesses.

Creators once waited for a network, publisher, studio, or broadcaster to select them.

Today, personalities can build audiences directly and expand across formats without waiting for a traditional gatekeeper. Their name, voice, perspective, and relationship with the audience can become the media’s primary brand.

Dan believes advertising dollars will continue moving toward these creator-led environments. A brand may no longer purchase only a podcast placement or a YouTube integration. It may sponsor the creator across several surfaces and negotiate rights to reuse the resulting content in paid campaigns. That changes the asset being purchased.

The value can include the creator’s audience relationship, intellectual property, content, distribution reach, endorsement, likeness, and permission to repurpose the campaign. Dan sees trust as the element that connects those assets.

Host-read advertising remains especially important because the recommendation comes through a person the audience already knows.

The strongest integrations allow the creator to speak naturally, test the product, acknowledge limitations, and explain why it may be useful.

Rob and Dan share early examples from the podcasting market in which creators criticize parts of a sponsor’s offering during paid integrations. That apparent risk can make the rest of the endorsement more believable because the audience hears an honest response rather than polished marketing language.

The discussion also examines where an advertisement appears inside an episode.

Dan is sharply critical of post-roll advertising because much of the audience has already left by the time the ad plays. Rob and Dan also discuss pre-rolls, mid-rolls, dynamic insertion, programmatic advertising, and the effects of placing too many ads in a single episode.

Oxford Road has published PodLoad research comparing the number of advertising units placed within shows.

Dan argues that an impression in a program carrying 6 minutes of advertising per hour should not automatically be valued the same as one in a show carrying 20 minutes of advertising. Excessive ad load can weaken attention and reduce campaign performance.

Brand values and suitability add another layer.

Dan believes advertisers should understand the values they claim to support and make intentional decisions about the creators and environments they fund.

Dan also believes brands became overly reactive during the height of the brand-safety debate and then moved too far in the opposite direction.

The goal should be a durable position that considers business outcomes alongside genuine organizational values. Audience demographics matter, but the creator’s tone, worldview, conduct, and credibility can also affect whether the partnership makes sense.

The second half of the episode turns to the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting, known as AMP.

Dan convened AMP as a one-year industry task force focused on three core questions:

– What qualifies as a podcast?
– How should exposure be counted across audio and video?
– How should advertising results be attributed?

AMP includes representatives from platforms, advertisers, publishers, creators, agencies, and measurement companies. Its stated purpose is to develop voluntary cross-platform standards that make podcast inventory easier to compare, buy, sell, and measure.

One of the group’s most discussed recommendations is moving toward a 30-second play threshold.

Dan explains that he is less concerned with whether the correct threshold is exactly 30 seconds or 60 seconds. The larger problem is that different platforms use different definitions. That inconsistency prevents advertisers from confidently comparing performance across audio and video.

The 30-second recommendation reflects what AMP members believed had the greatest chance of broad adoption. A workable shared standard can move the market forward even when it does not represent every participant’s preferred method.

Dan compares the current landscape to islands that speak different languages. Each platform may have useful data, but the absence of a common language makes commerce harder. AMP is trying to provide a shared framework without requiring every platform to abandon its existing internal analytics.

The group is preparing the AMP Accords as a framework covering podcast classification, exposure, and advertising effectiveness. The official AMP site identifies Oxford Road as the organization that convened the process.

Rob and Dan then take on the most persistent question in podcasting: What is a podcast?

Two areas continue to create friction.

One is whether a podcast must be distributed through RSS.
The other is whether the medium must be primarily audio.

Dan believes RSS represents important principles, including open access and flexible distribution.

Dan does not believe RSS should be the only requirement determining whether a show qualifies as a podcast.

His practical test is whether the experience still works when the audience closes its eyes.

Video can enhance a podcast without disqualifying it. A program that requires constant visual attention will remain open to debate, but he argues that advertisers need enough consistency to conduct business.

Rob explains that RSS has increasingly become an industry-level, server-to-server distribution system. Many newer creators do not know where to find their RSS feed because hosting platforms now handle most submission and syndication work through dashboards and direct platform connections.

Audiences care even less about the technical delivery method. They call content a podcast based on how the experience looks and feels.

The conversation also covers Apple’s HLS video implementation. Rob supports the opportunity for high-quality streaming video but questions Apple’s use of a direct submission process rather than placing the HLS stream inside the open RSS feed. He believes alternative enclosures could enable the same video stream to reach more podcast apps without limiting it to a single platform.

Dan views HLS as broadly compatible with AMP’s goal of measuring real consumption across audio and video. He also recognizes that open distribution, platform control, creator ownership, and practical commercial adoption will continue pulling the market in different directions.

The episode closes with a look at what may happen to legacy media.

Dan does not expect established media companies to disappear quietly. Many still have capital, infrastructure, distribution, and the ability to acquire or support major personalities.

Dan expects some traditional media companies to adapt by functioning more like houses that provide resources to talent while allowing the personality to remain the visible brand.

Dan also expects renewed opportunity in local media, which could return through creator-led, community-focused models rather than traditional newspapers or broadcast stations.

Artificial intelligence will also become part of this future.

Dan sees value in personalized and AI-supported content, provided audiences can clearly understand when material is authentic, synthetic, or manipulated.

Rob argues that transparent labeling, human accountability, and audience awareness will become increasingly important as AI personalities and automated media gain adoption.

Episode 677 captures a media market in the middle of a structural change. Personalities are carrying audiences across platforms. Advertisers want creator trust while also demanding dependable measurement. Platforms want control over distribution, while creators want ownership and flexibility.

The companies that bring those interests together will help determine how creator media is bought, measured, and scaled.

Topics Covered in This Episode

– Why personalities are becoming media companies
– The CAO Summit and brand-to-brand learning
– Connecting advertisers directly with creators
– The purpose of the Indie PaC Awards
– How to define an independent creator
– Why independent shows can outperform larger networks
– Creator ownership and editorial control
– Brands shifting budget toward creator media
– Host-read advertising and audience trust
– Why honest creator criticism can improve an endorsement
– Pre-roll, mid-roll, and post-roll advertising
– Podcast ad load and campaign performance
– Brand safety, suitability, and values alignment
– Buying creators across several media platforms
– Licensing creator advertising content
– The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting
– The proposed 30-second podcast-play standard
– Measuring audio and video through a common framework
– Defining a podcast beyond RSS
– Why video does not automatically change the medium
– Apple HLS video and alternative RSS enclosures
– The IAB’s possible role in industry adoption
– Legacy media adaptation
– The future of local creator media
– AI content, personalization, and disclosure

Chapter Time Stamp Markers:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 677
00:19 How personality-led media is changing the market
03:10 Introducing Dan Granger of Oxford Road
04:00 Why in-person media gatherings matter again
06:14 How the CAO Summit began
07:31 Defining the Chief Audio Officer
09:19 Bringing advertisers and creators together
11:34 The Independent Podcast and Creator Awards
13:38 Deal Room and a new approach to podcast upfronts
14:21 What makes a creator truly independent?
16:06 Joe Rogan, ownership, and platform influence
17:42 Publishing activity and independent-creator criteria
18:20 Creators are taking control of the media world
20:26 Personality-driven media reaches every institution
22:12 Brands move more budget toward creator content
25:16 Trust as the core creator-media asset
27:00 Why host-read advertising still works
28:22 Product testing and honest creator endorsements
30:00 Ad placement, post-rolls, and wasted impressions
31:18 How excessive ad load damages performance
33:00 Rob’s early radio and podcast advertising experience
35:46 Remembering Todd Cochrane
36:46 What advertisers now value in creators
37:00 Buying a personality across multiple platforms
38:17 Licensing creator content for paid campaigns
39:18 Brand safety, values, and commercial outcomes
45:54 Introducing the AMP measurement project
47:37 The 30-second versus 60-second play debate
48:00 Why a shared measurement language matters
51:38 AMP’s one-year mission and planned conclusion
52:25 Why the industry still needs to define a podcast
54:26 RSS, audio, video, and open distribution
56:00 HLS video and cross-platform attribution
57:12 Apple APIs compared with RSS alternative enclosures
59:08 Is RSS still essential to podcasting?
1:00:00 Why consumers no longer think about RSS
1:01:30 Dan’s “works with your eyes closed” podcast test
1:03:37 Why advertisers need a practical definition
1:04:35 AMP’s position on podcasts without RSS
1:05:49 The RSS education gap among newer creators
1:07:43 Building standards that grow the entire market
1:09:22 The IAB’s role in measurement adoption
1:11:18 Will personalities replace legacy media brands?
1:12:27 The possible rebirth of local media
1:13:42 AI content, personalization, and labeling
1:16:00 AMP’s contribution to a more scalable market
1:17:35 Closing remarks

Guest Links: Dan Granger, Founder and CEO, Oxford Road

Oxford Road: https://oxfordroad.com
Dan Granger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dangranger
Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting: https://www.ampaccords.com
Oxford Road Thought Leadership: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership
Oxford Road ORBIT: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership/orbit
Indie PaC Awards Announcement: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership/this-weeks-influencer-introducing-the-inaugural-indie-pac-awards-tiktok-resumes-its-long-form-push-orbit-deems-niche-sports-vips-and-more

Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

AI Disclosure Note

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain mine. The discussion reflects the views expressed by my guest and me during the recorded conversation.

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Creators Become Media | Steve Wilson, Daylight Media and QCODE #676

July 23, 2026July 11, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

In Episode #676 of the New Media Show, host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Steve Wilson, Chief Strategy Officer at Daylight Media and QCODE, for a wide-ranging conversation about the shift from producing a successful podcast to building a sustainable creator-led media company.

Creators no longer operate in a simple world of publishing one show to ONE place and relying mainly on advertising.

The strongest creators are building direct relationships with audiences across podcasts, video, short-form clips, newsletters, communities, subscriptions, live events, products, and services.

Podcasting remains one of the most effective long-form formats for building trust and repeated audience connection.

It is now one part of a larger media strategy shaped by video distribution, platform algorithms, artificial intelligence, audience ownership, and the growing power of individual personalities.

Steve brings a valuable perspective to this discussion. Before joining QCODE, he spent years working with Apple Podcasts and iTunes. At QCODE, he helped develop and distribute premium scripted audio series featuring talent including Matthew McConaughey, Demi Moore, and Rami Malek. QCODE has since expanded through Daylight Media, which provides distribution, monetization, technology, marketing, and business support for a broader network of creators.

Daylight currently works with roughly 70 creators and shows representing approximately 300 million monthly audio downloads and video views.

Across that network, video now accounts for a significant share of consumption, although the balance between audio and video differs considerably from show to show.

That difference is important.

Some creators have audiences that strongly favor YouTube and Spotify video. Other shows continue to perform primarily through audio.

For some programs, video may be valuable mainly as a discovery and social marketing layer rather than as the central product. Steve argues that creators should evaluate their format, audience, resources, and business goals before committing to a major video expansion.

Rob and Steve discuss Apple’s HLS video support and why it may become an important addition to the podcast distribution ecosystem. HLS can give creators greater flexibility in delivering video while maintaining many of the ownership and control principles associated with RSS.

The larger issue is whether creators retain access to their audience data, revenue information, advertising options, and the ability to move their shows between services.

The conversation also examines what makes a show work in both audio and video.

A strong video presentation may include thoughtful set design, lighting, visual storytelling, archival material, graphics, and physical objects that add context. The underlying audio still needs to stand on its own.

Listeners should not feel as though they are receiving an incomplete version of a show because they cannot see what is happening on screen.

Steve points to television, documentary production, and the work of filmmakers such as Ken Burns as useful references.

A show can begin with excellent audio storytelling and add visuals that deepen the experience without making the audio audience feel secondary.

There are also cases where the audio and video products should remain different. Scripted fiction uses sound to create a theater of the mind, allowing listeners to imagine the world and its characters. Turning that same property into a visual production may require a separate creative and business decision rather than a simple video version of the podcast.

We also explore the potential for long-form content on Instagram, the renewed interest in vertical video, and the growing market for microdramas. They also revisit Quibi and consider whether some earlier media ideas failed because the technology, audience behavior, or distribution environment was not yet ready for them.

The discussion then turns to one of the most important distinctions between podcasting and YouTube.

YouTube can generate large spikes around individual videos, but performance may vary widely from episode to episode.

Traditional RSS-based podcast audiences are often more consistent. That stability can make an audio podcast especially valuable to advertisers because future episode delivery and revenue are easier to forecast.

YouTube is highly effective for discovery. Podcast feeds are often stronger at developing recurring habits around a series. Successful media companies will increasingly need to understand the value of both.

Catalog discovery is another major opportunity. Podcasts and long-form videos can remain useful for years, but most platforms continue to prioritize newly released material. Steve argues that the industry needs better ways to help audiences find relevant episodes from existing catalogs based on subject, location, interest, and current context.

Daylight recently acquired Podcast Review, a long-running editorial publication focused on podcast reviews, interviews, recommendations, and lists. Steve sees independent editorial guidance as an important part of helping audiences find strong shows beyond what algorithms automatically recommend. Podcast Review continues to publish consumer-focused coverage while operating as a Daylight Media property with stated editorial standards and disclosures.

Rob and Steve discuss whether the audience now has more influence over what qualifies as a podcast. Listeners and viewers increasingly use the word to describe a style of recurring, personality-led media rather than a specific technical delivery method.

Steve is less concerned with rigid format definitions. He compares the current debate to earlier questions about whether a streaming series released all at once should still be called television. Distribution formats change. Audience behavior changes. The most useful question is whether the content delivers the experience people expect from the show.

The second half of the episode focuses on creators becoming media companies.

Daylight works with creators at different stages, from established personalities such as Jon Stewart to growing shows entering advertising for the first time. Some partners need only ad sales support. Others are developing subscriptions, merchandise, tours, live events, networks, and additional shows.

Steve describes Daylight as an infrastructure layer that often works behind the scenes. The goal is to help the creator’s brand remain visible while providing the operational systems needed to grow. Daylight was launched as an expansion of QCODE’s creator-support work, with services covering distribution, audience development, marketing, technology, products, and monetization.

Creator-first structure differs from an older media model in which the studio or network brand often controlled the relationship between talent and audience. Steve believes the next era will give creators more leverage, flexibility, and ownership. The companies that support them will need to prove their value without taking over the show’s identity.

Artificial intelligence is already affecting that work, although adoption varies widely. Some creators are using AI for research, transcription, artwork, editing, and production support. Others remain strongly opposed to it.

Steve does not see the choice as a complete acceptance or rejection of AI.

Each use case needs to be evaluated separately. Voice dubbing may help a creator correct a short line without having to re-record an entire session. Transcription can reduce production time. Synthetic performances or undisclosed manipulation may violate the audience’s expectations and trust.

Both agree that growing volumes of synthetic content may also increase the value of live, in-person, and clearly human experiences.

Podcast tours, creator conferences, community gatherings, retreats, and interactive events allow audiences to participate in ways that digital platforms cannot fully reproduce. The opportunity may extend beyond recording a regular episode on stage.

Future creator events could include audience conversations, workshops, performances, shared activities, and experiences built around a particular community or interest.

This episode offers a clear view of where creator media is heading. A show can remain the center of the relationship, but the greater opportunity lies in building a flexible media business around the audience, protecting creator ownership, and selecting formats that serve the content rather than following every platform trend.

Topics Covered in This Episode

– Why successful creators are becoming media companies
– QCODE’s expansion into Daylight Media
– Audio and video consumption across the Daylight network
– Apple HLS video and creator-controlled distribution
– Why every show needs a different audio and video strategy
– Set design and visual storytelling for video shows
– Preserving a complete experience for audio listeners
– Scripted fiction, video adaptations, and intellectual property
– Instagram, vertical video, and microdramas
– YouTube discovery compared with RSS audience stability
– Evergreen content and podcast-catalog discovery
– Apple Podcasts editorial discovery
– Daylight Media’s acquisition of Podcast Review
– Whether audiences now define what a podcast is
– Revenue beyond advertising
– Subscriptions, merchandise, networks, touring, and events
– Daylight as a behind-the-scenes creator infrastructure company
– RSS, APIs, alternate enclosures, and platform control
– Creator access to audience and revenue data
– AI production tools and audience trust
– The growing value of live and human experiences

Chapter Time Stamp Markers:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 676
00:36 Creators are building full media businesses
02:24 Introducing Steve Wilson of Daylight Media and QCODE
03:05 How QCODE expanded into Daylight Media
04:23 From premium audio fiction to a creator network
05:16 Video now drives much of the network’s consumption
05:59 Apple HLS video and creator flexibility
08:27 Why there is no single audio-video strategy
09:03 What makes a show work in video?
10:44 Keeping audio listeners at the center
12:09 Higher production values and video set design
14:34 Theater of the mind and the value of audio
15:37 Short-form video and social-first podcasts
16:00 Could Instagram become a long-form video platform?
17:33 Microdramas, vertical storytelling, and the Quibi lesson
18:27 Audio-first creators and video anxiety
19:24 YouTube volatility compared with RSS stability
21:01 Tentpole episodes, long-form content, and audience habits
22:10 Evergreen catalog discovery
23:26 Apple Podcasts editorial discovery
25:00 Daylight Media acquires Podcast Review
25:46 Is the audience taking control of media definitions?
27:52 Does the technical definition of a podcast still matter?
31:03 Moving from a show to a media company
32:14 Daylight’s creator network and growth spectrum
32:54 Subscriptions, merchandise, tours, and new revenue
33:35 Daylight as a creator infrastructure layer
34:07 Why Daylight works behind the scenes
36:12 The future of video distribution and RSS
37:17 Alternate enclosures and location-based discovery
38:24 Creator ownership beyond RSS purity
39:59 Audio ads, video ads, platforms, and advertiser results
41:07 Independent creators gain more media power
42:07 How creators are using AI
43:02 Where AI can damage audience trust
45:05 AI voice dubbing and practical production uses
45:34 The return of live and human experiences
47:18 Podcast tours, conferences, and creator communities
49:18 Building more interactive creator events
50:51 Final thoughts on Daylight Media and QCODE
51:31 Where to find Daylight and QCODE shows
52:44 End of episode

Guest Links: Steve Wilson, Chief Strategy Officer, Daylight Media and QCODE

Daylight Media: https://daylightmedia.com
QCODE Media: https://qcodemedia.com
Podcast Review: https://podcastreview.org
Steve Wilson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenwilson7
Steve Wilson on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wilsonomics

Steve Wilson is currently Chief Strategy Officer at Daylight Media, with his work continuing across the QCODE and Daylight organizations.

Host, Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

About Trust Factor Lab

Trust Factor Lab helps creators, media leaders, executives, and brands build stronger audience trust across AI, video, podcasts, and creator-led media. Founded by Rob Greenlee, it focuses on content strategy, authority development, media positioning, AI transparency, audience growth, and business outcomes built through credibility.