Who Profits From Video? The Real Cost of Video Podcasting | #691

October 17, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

“Is video podcasting making creators more profitable, or simply making their content more valuable to YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and other platforms? Plus the brewing AI content vs Human content battle that is developing”

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest: Losh Moodaley In New Media Show #691, Host Rob Greenlee, Founder of TrustFactorLab.com, and Podcast Hall of Famer, welcomes guest Losh Moodaley, a podcast sponsorship and brand partnerships strategist.

They together explore the economics of video podcasting, creator monetization, platform control, audience ownership, and the future of human-centered media.

Losh brings more than 15 years of commercial experience across entertainment, retail, sports, and brand partnerships. Her article, The Price of Visibility: The Hidden Economics of Podcast Video, raises an important question for independent creators: when does investing in video actually make business sense?

What starts as a discussion about podcast profitability expands into a larger conversation about the changing definition of podcasting, direct sponsorships, live commerce, AI-generated media, human creativity, and audience trust.

Who Really Profits From Video Podcasting?

Video has become a major driver of podcast discovery. YouTube is attracting podcast audiences, Spotify and Apple are expanding their video capabilities, and creators are being encouraged to produce more visual content.

But financial tension underlies that growth.

Adding video often means additional equipment, production time, editing, graphics, lighting, and publishing work. Those costs do not automatically produce equivalent revenue.

Losh explains why creators should evaluate video as a business investment rather than simply follow platform expectations.

The question becomes: Are you building a more profitable creator business, or helping platforms generate additional viewing time?

The Video Threshold: When Does Video Pay for Itself?

Losh introduces her Video Threshold framework, which identifies the point where additional video production costs are justified by the revenue and business value created.

She discusses research suggesting that producing a video podcast can cost substantially more than an audio-only show, with one industry analysis finding production costs approximately 3.6 times higher.

But the economics vary considerably depending on how a creator earns revenue.

A podcast dependent on CPM-based advertising may need a very large audience to support professional video production.
A smaller show generating consulting clients, direct sponsorships, memberships, or product sales may justify video much sooner.

Video can be valuable without paying for itself through advertising alone.

Video as a Customer Acquisition Strategy

One of the most useful distinctions in the conversation is looking at video as marketing and customer acquisition rather than simply another content format.

A YouTube appearance, short clip, or full video episode might introduce someone to a creator for the first time.

But what happens afterward?

Does the viewer become a subscriber, customer, community member, consulting client, or someone who develops a meaningful relationship with the creator?

Rob and Losh discuss why discovery numbers alone cannot answer those questions.

The business value may come from the relationship that develops after someone finds the content.

Own Your Audience Instead of Renting It

The conversation turns toward the growing power of distribution platforms.

YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and other services provide access to enormous audiences, but their business priorities do not always align with those of independent creators.

Platforms optimize for engagement, viewing time, subscriptions, and their own revenue models.

Creators need to think differently: build relationships and assets they can control.

Rob and Losh discuss newsletters, websites, memberships, subscriptions, communities, and direct customer relationships as ways to reduce platform dependence.

They also emphasize owning intellectual property and building a business that doesn’t depend entirely on one distribution company.

Beyond CPMs: Sponsorships, Products, and Community

Traditional podcast advertising remains important, but Losh sees significant opportunity beyond standard host-read advertising and programmatic CPM revenue.

The discussion explores direct brand partnerships, integrated sponsorship experiences, premium offerings, consulting, live events, and audience-supported businesses.

Instead of simply inserting more ads into episodes, creators may develop experiences that connect sponsors and audiences more naturally.

An independent creator with a smaller but highly engaged community may generate substantial business value without competing for millions of downloads.

Audience trust and relevance can become more important than raw scale.

When Video, Community, and Commerce Come Together

The episode moves into live video commerce and a possible future for creator-led media businesses.

Rob Greenlee shares his experience and observations of the fast-growing platform Whatnot, where creators combine live video, merchandise, auctions, audience interaction, and collaborative community events.

That model suggests opportunities for podcasts and creator brands to extend beyond advertising into products, retail, live experiences, and direct transactions.

Losh sees growing potential in combining video, commerce, and community.

The future creator business may not be defined by a single show or distribution platform, but by the relationships and opportunities built around its audience.

Audio and Video Are Different Experiences

Rob brings his experience producing New Media Show in both audio and video for many years into the discussion.

As Apple Podcasts and other platforms adopt HLS streaming and integrated audio-video experiences, creators face new decisions about how to produce their content.

Should the audio and video versions always be identical?

Can a visually driven program deliver the same value when someone turns off the screen?
Do creators need separate edits to produce the strongest experience in each format?

Rob argues that creators should retain flexibility to build content around the strengths of the medium rather than be forced into one production model.

What Is a Podcast Now?

The conversation also tackles the continuing identity debate around podcasting.

Traditional podcasting was built around open RSS distribution, but audiences increasingly identify long-form conversations on YouTube and even streaming services such as Netflix as podcasts.

Rob Greenlee argues that audience behavior and platform terminology are increasingly shaping what people understand a podcast to be.

Losh and Rob discuss whether the industry can establish common definitions and meaningful measurements as video, streaming, downloads, and social media consumption converge.

Measuring Attention, Outcomes, and Trust

Views, downloads, listening time, impressions, conversions, and customer value each provide a different piece of the picture.

Rob and Losh explore whether the future of creator measurement should place greater emphasis on audience attention, financial outcomes, and return on investment.

They also consider whether AI might eventually help connect fragmented measurement systems and reveal deeper signals about the value of audience relationships.

The discussion returns repeatedly to trust as an important element of creator success, particularly when media is used to build professional authority, relationships, and business opportunities.

AI Media and the Future Human Creator

The second half of the conversation expands into the future of AI-generated and AI-enhanced media.

Rob Greenlee describes three developing categories:

Fully human-created content.
Human-created content enhanced through AI tools.
Fully AI-generated content.

Losh emphasizes the continuing value of human connection, particularly in conversational media where audiences develop relationships with real people.

The conversation then moves into synthetic characters, virtual personalities, immersive storytelling, digital worlds, and the potential for AI-created intellectual property to become part of real-world entertainment and commerce.

As production capabilities expand, imagination, creativity, judgment, responsibility, and ownership may become increasingly important.

Build a Business That Makes Sense for You

Losh closes with practical advice for creators. Do not invest in video simply because platforms encourage it. Consider why you are creating, who your audience is, what value you provide, and how the content supports your goals.

A podcast created as a hobby has different requirements from one designed to generate business revenue.

For creators building a business, consistency, a clear niche, audience trust, sustainable costs, and direct relationships remain essential.

Rob Greenlee also notes that creators should test whether their ideas and workflows are sustainable before making major investments in production and business infrastructure.

The central takeaway:

Video can grow your audience, but audience growth alone does not guarantee a sustainable business. Build for your audience and your own economic goals, not simply the objectives of the platforms carrying your content.

Key topics:

– The real economics of video podcasting
– Why video production can increase costs faster than revenue
– Losh Moodaley’s Video Threshold framework
– Video as customer acquisition and marketing
– Platform incentives versus creator profitability
– Owning audience relationships and intellectual property
– Direct sponsorships and alternatives to CPM advertising
– Community, memberships, products, and live experiences
– Whatnot, live shopping, and creator-led commerce
– Audio versus video production workflows
– HLS streaming and the future of podcast distribution
– YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Netflix
– The changing definition of podcasting
– Attention, ROI, and creator business measurement
– Human trust in AI-enhanced and synthetic media
– Building sustainable creator businesses

Chapter timestamps:

00:00 Who profits from video podcasting?
02:00 Meet Losh Moodaley
06:00 The pressure to move from audio to video
07:00 Is video becoming the price of discoverability?
10:00 Podcasts move into the living room
14:00 The rising production costs of video
16:00 Video as a customer acquisition investment
18:00 Building revenue beyond traditional advertising
20:00 Why creators need to own their audiences
25:00 Platform economics versus creator economics
28:00 HLS streaming and a video-first future
32:00 Direct sponsorships and authentic brand integration
36:00 Audience support, memberships, and premium content
39:00 Live commerce and the future of creator retail
43:00 Why audio and video need different creative approaches
47:00 Podcasting’s identity and measurement challenges
51:00 Attention, return on investment, and AI measurement
54:00 The human trust layer and AI agents
56:00 Human-created, AI-enhanced, and synthetic content
60:00 Virtual characters, intellectual property, and creativity
65:00 Limitless AI production and creative responsibility
70:00 Build the podcast around your business goals
75:00 Final advice for independent creators
77:00 Where to connect with Losh Moodaley

Chapter markers are based on the recording transcript and should be verified against the final edited video.

Guest: Losh Moodaley

Losh Moodaley is a podcast sponsorship and brand partnerships strategist with 15+ years of experience across entertainment, retail, sports, and commercial partnerships.

Her work focuses on helping independent podcasts develop sustainable sponsorship revenue, direct brand relationships, and business models that reflect the value of their audiences.

Connect with Losh:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/loshm13/
The Price of Visibility, Podnews: https://podnews.net/article/the-video-threshold
Beyond the CPM, Podnews: https://podnews.net/article/beyond-the-cpm-podcast-advertising

Host: Rob Greenlee

Rob Greenlee is the host of New Media Show, founder of Trust Factor Lab, a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, and Chair of the Podcast Hall of Fame.

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com/
Trust Factor Lab: https://trustfactorlab.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/
Adore Network Audio: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-audio
Adore Network Video: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-video
Apple Podcasts Audio: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
Apple Podcasts Video: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-video/id392545647

AI disclosure

AI tools helped organize and draft these show notes from the original episode transcript. The conversation features human participants. Editorial review and final publishing decisions remain with Rob Greenlee.

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How AI Is Changing the Creator Workflow | Descript CEO Laura Burkhauser #690

October 8, 2026October 8, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

WATCH OR LISTEN · EPISODE 690

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Show notes

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest: Laura Burkhauser, CEO, Descript.com In New Media Show #690, Host Rob Greenlee, Podcast Hall of Famer and Founder of TrustFactorLab.com, joins Laura Burkhauser, CEO of Descript (https://www.descript.com), to explore how AI is changing the way creators edit, produce, and share their work.

As AI takes on more production tasks, what becomes more valuable about the human creator? Laura and I discuss creative direction, storytelling, authenticity, audience trust, and the role of tools such as Descript’s Underlord. The conversation also looks beyond editing to the business of creating media and the pressure to show up across more platforms.

From Editing to Creative Direction

We start with a question many creators are facing: is editing becoming more like directing?

Laura distinguishes between people whose craft is editing and people whose craft is the story they want to tell. Both can benefit from AI, but they may want very different levels of control.

For an editor, the small decisions are part of the art.

For a storyteller, editing may be the obstacle between recording an idea and sharing it with an audience. We discuss why a clear creative vision still matters.

Asking AI to edit a podcast can produce a usable result, but communicating a specific perspective, reviewing its choices, and refining the work are what help a creator make something distinctive.

Let AI Handle the Friction

Laura’s approach to AI starts with understanding what creators actually want help doing.

Creators want relief from repetitive production work while keeping their voice, vision, and story. Laura describes Descript’s philosophy as “struggle with your art, not with your tools.”

That leads to a discussion about the promises AI companies make and the trust they can lose when those promises overlook how creative work happens.

Rob Greenlee shares his experience moving from assembling radio shows by hand to using Descript in my current workflow. We explore how creators can choose the right balance of manual editing and AI assistance for the content they want to make.

Authenticity and the Choices Behind an Edit

Does editing make a conversation less authentic? Laura argues that thoughtful editing can bring its meaning into sharper focus.

A reaction shot or a well-timed close-up can help an audience understand the emotion in a conversation. The question is whether an edit serves what happened between the people involved.

We also talk about the difference between being authentic and performing authenticity online. Showing up as yourself can build connection, but it can also leave creators exposed to criticism.

Laura explains why a recognizable human presence and community engagement matter to her.

Rob connects that discussion to my work with Trust Factor Lab and the challenge of building trust as more synthetic media enters the mix is the growing opportunity.

Start Creating Before Expecting a Business

Laura was a Descript customer before she joined the company. Editing a podcast with a friend showed her she could put her own humor and perspective into the world without mastering a complicated production tool.

Her practical advice is to begin by recording something.

The opportunity is to talk about a problem you understand, a subject you care about, or an issue you can explore with another person. Then edit it, share it, and keep going long enough to learn from the experience.

We discuss how the expectation of immediate revenue can get in the way of the authentic creator process.

Creating media can support a business even when the media itself is not the product. For coaches, consultants, founders, and other professionals, a video or podcast can show their expertise and help start a relationship that leads to work.

Community, Revenue, and Reaching the Right People

Our business discussion moves into audience support, Patreon, and sponsorship opportunities.

Laura points to community support as one possible path for working creators. We also explore why a business serving a specific audience may be a better sponsorship prospect than a broad advertising buyer.

Local businesses and companies serving a particular interest give us examples to consider.

The discussion focuses on understanding your audience, what they care about, and which relationships could create value.

We also look at why more companies are building their own media operations and why creators feel pressure to produce both long-form conversations and short clips.

Algorithms and What Comes Next for Descript

Laura describes being intentional about her own media consumption, including turning off YouTube recommendations. I share how I use both subscriptions and algorithmic discovery.

A broader conversation starts about personalization.

Laura argues that the goals given to an algorithm matter. A system rewarded for attention does not automatically distinguish between an experience that helps someone and one that keeps them engaged through anger or distrust.

We close with Laura’s BIG Direction for Descript:

Helping creators across more of their content workflow, including identifying the subjects they want to own, building a library of useful material, publishing across platforms, and learning from what works. Laura describes that as a direction for future development as creators manage growing demands on their time.

Key takeaways:

AI can make production easier, but your perspective still gives people a reason to listen. Use the tools to reduce friction, make deliberate creative choices, and invest in the relationships that give your work lasting value.

Key topics

– AI editing, Underlord, and the changing creator workflow
– The difference between editing as a craft and editing as a production task
– Creative direction, specific prompts, and human judgment
– Reducing repetitive work while preserving a creator’s voice
– Authenticity, thoughtful editing, and audience trust
– Getting started without expecting immediate monetization
– Using media to support a coaching, consulting, or founder-led business
– Community support, Patreon, and targeted sponsorships
– YouTube discovery, subscriptions, and personalization
– Descript’s direction beyond editing into broader content workflows

Chapter timestamps

– 00:00 AI workflows and the value of the human creator
– 02:00 Meet Descript CEO Laura Burkhauser
– 03:00 Is editing becoming directing?
– 05:00 When storytelling is the creator’s main craft
– 07:00 Creative vision and directing AI
– 10:00 Standing out through your voice and perspective
– 12:00 AI promises, creator trust, and tool friction
– 14:00 From manual production to AI-assisted editing
– 16:00 Authenticity and the role of a good editor
– 18:00 What does it mean to be authentic online?
– 21:00 Technology, human needs, and useful AI
– 24:00 Trust Factor Lab and finding a balance with AI
– 26:00 Laura’s experience as a Descript customer
– 28:00 Record, edit, share, and build confidence
– 30:00 Does pressure to monetize hold creators back?
– 32:00 Content as a way to grow a business
– 35:00 Community support and creator revenue
– 36:00 Local businesses and targeted sponsorships
– 39:00 YouTube recommendations and intentional viewing
– 42:00 Personalization, engagement, and human outcomes
– 46:00 What comes next for Descript
– 48:00 Closing thoughts

Guest Laura Burkhauser

Laura Burkhauser is CEO of Descript. In this conversation, she shares her perspective as a technology leader, a humanist, and a former Descript customer who discovered the creative possibilities of editing her own podcast.

– Descript: https://www.descript.com
– Descript Underlord: https://www.descript.com/underlord
– Laura Burkhauser on the Descript blog: https://www.descript.com/blog/author/laura-burkhauser

Host Rob Greenlee

Rob Greenlee is the founder/builder of Trust Factor Lab (https://TrustFactorLab.com), host of New Media Show, and a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair. His work connects podcasting, video, creator platforms, audience trust, and the media business.

– New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
– New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
– Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com/
– Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
– Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com
– Adore Network Audio: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-audio
– Adore Network Video: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-video
– Apple Podcasts Audio: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
– Apple Podcasts Video: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-video/id392545647

AI disclosure

AI tools helped organize and draft these show notes from the completed Episode #690 transcript. Rob Greenlee and guest retain all editorial responsibility. The New Media Show is human-hosted with human guests. AI is used for light editing of the actual audio and video media files.

The Creator Reset: AI, Trust and What Comes Next | Jim Louderback #689

October 2, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

In New Media Show #689, I’m joined by Jim Louderback, publisher of Inside the Creator Economy and former CEO of VidCon and Revision3, to explore what the next phase of the creator economy means for people building media businesses.

Jim and I have lived through several shifts at the intersection of media and technology. This conversation connects the early days of video podcasting with today’s AI tools, changing audience habits, and the search for a lasting creator business. More ways to create and distribute content bring opportunity, but they also raise questions about attention, ownership, and trust.

Digital Jim and the Human Premium

We start with Digital Jim, the AI version of Jim that turns his human-written newsletter into short videos.

Jim explains how the team at Popcorn uses his words, an AI voice, and a visual avatar to help him reach audiences on LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube Shorts. He still writes the newsletter and reviews the videos before sharing them.

That experiment leads to one of the episode’s central ideas: the human premium.

Jim’s hypothesis is that, as audiences encounter more AI-generated media, they may place greater value on recognizable human voices, imperfect conversations, and experiences with real people. We discuss what that could mean for audience relationships, advertising, and in-person events.

Podcasting in a Bigger Creator Economy

We revisit Revision3, Diggnation, and the early use of short clips to introduce people to longer shows. Video podcasting and distributing a conversation in several formats have a longer history than today’s debate sometimes acknowledges.

Jim describes an audio-plus approach: people can listen when that suits them, while video creates another way to discover and experience a show. We also discuss why creators spread their work across platforms, how short-form awareness differs from monetization, and the risks of depending on one platform’s rules.

Could Personalized AI Media Disrupt YouTube

Our platform conversation moves from Netflix’s interest in creator programming to a bigger question:

What could disrupt YouTube? Jim suggests that a major technological shift, rather than another similar video service, could open the door. His audience-of-one idea goes beyond recommending existing videos. We explore the possibility of media generated specifically for an individual, along with what Jim calls robo-social relationships with AI characters that respond to and remember their users.

We debate these predictions, including how they might compete for time people currently spend with human creators.

Your Identity and Archive Have Value

We discuss the business value of a creator’s name, image, likeness, voice, and archive. I share my experience exploring Royall.ai and receiving inquiries about using past New Media Show conversations as AI training material.

That raises questions about guest permission, licensing, tracking use, and maintaining control over future uses of a creator’s work.

Jim also describes an audio watermarking approach he has encountered, while acknowledging that he has not independently established how well it works. The discussion is about taking identity and content rights seriously as new business models emerge.

Live Shopping and the Next Media Business

Jim explains what he wants readers to get from Inside the Creator Economy: timely reporting, his interpretation of the news, and ideas they can question. We talk about the differences between email subscribers, LinkedIn newsletter subscribers, and the audience numbers platforms report.

We then explore global creator markets, Whatnot, live shopping, and the role of personality and audience participation in commerce.

TBPN’s combination of a live show, a focused audience, and widely distributed clips gives us another example to examine. We close with local AI tools and a practical encouragement from Jim: keep experimenting.

My key takeaways:

Use these tools to expand what you can create, while giving people a reason to connect with you. Your ideas, judgment, and relationships shape the value of the media business you build.

Key topics

How Digital Jim turns a human-written newsletter into AI video
The human premium and the value of real audience relationships
Video podcasting’s history and an audio-plus approach
Multi-platform distribution, short clips, and platform dependence
Netflix, YouTube, and media generated for an audience of one
Robo-social relationships and competition for audience attention
Creator identity, archive licensing, AI training, and permission
Newsletter measurement, global creator markets, and live shopping
Whatnot, TBPN, and building a focused media business
Local AI tools, creative judgment, and continued experimentation

Chapter timestamps

00:00 Welcome to New Media Show 689, and the creator reset
01:00 Meet Jim Louderback and watch Digital Jim
03:00 How Popcorn produces Jim’s AI newsletter videos
06:00 Bringing podcasting and the creator economy together
10:00 Audio plus video and reaching audiences in more formats
13:00 Multi-platform distribution and creator business risk
17:00 The human premium in an AI media world
24:00 Younger creators and the changing meaning of podcasting
27:00 AI visuals and turning audio into video experiences
30:00 Netflix and the value of creator programming
32:00 What could disrupt YouTube
34:00 Personalized media and the audience of one
37:00 Robo-social relationships and AI companions
43:00 Human creativity and the limits of average content
44:00 Royall.ai and capturing a creator’s digital identity
47:00 Archive licensing, AI training data, and guest permission
49:00 Watermarking, content control, and future use
53:00 Inside the Creator Economy and newsletter measurement
57:00 Global creator markets and live shopping
58:00 Whatnot, collectibles, and audience participation
01:02:00 TBPN, live shows, and the power of distributed clips
01:06:00 AI platforms, local models, and new media tools
01:08:00 Keep experimenting and closing thoughts

Guest Jim Louderback

Jim Louderback publishes the weekly Inside the Creator Economy newsletter and produces, curates, and moderates creator events around the world. He is the former CEO of VidCon and Revision3, and his career also includes leadership and editorial roles at Discovery Digital Networks, TechTV, and PC Magazine.

Jim Louderback: https://louderback.com/
About Jim: https://louderback.com/about/
Inside the Creator Economy archive: https://louderback.com/blog/
Subscribe to Inside the Creator Economy: https://louderback.com/subscribe-to-my-weekly-newsletter/

Host Rob Greenlee

Rob Greenlee is the founder of Trust Factor Lab, host of New Media Show, and a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair. His work connects podcasting, video, creator platforms, audience trust, and the media business.

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com/
Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/
Adore Network Audio: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-audio
Adore Network Video: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-video
Apple Podcasts Audio: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
Apple Podcasts Video: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-video/id392545647

AI disclosure

AI tools helped organize and draft these show notes from the completed Episode #689 transcript and edited the full show. Rob Greenlee retains editorial responsibility. The New Media Show is human-hosted with human guests; this episode also includes a disclosed AI-generated Digital Jim video demonstration.

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Podcasting’s Identity Crisis: Who Controls Podcasts Now? | James Cridland #688

September 25, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

Your podcast can be available everywhere and still be hard to find. So who controls its future: the creator, the audience, or the platform?

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest: James Cridland, Editor of Podnews.net In New Media Show #688, Rob Greenlee welcomes back James Cridland, Editor of Podnews, co-host of the Podnews Weekly Review, and a 2026 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, for a conversation about what Podcast Week in New York City revealed about our industry.

We compare notes on the IAB Podcast Upfronts, CreatorFronts, and a very different NYC Podcast Movement. James also shares his experience at the Sounds Profitable Business Summit.

The week had plenty of energy, but it also exposed real differences in how creators, platforms, and advertisers see podcasting’s future.

Podcast Movement’s Terminal 5 venue brought challenges around meetings, exhibitor space, and crowding.

James argues that the headphone-based sessions worked better than expected. We also reflect on Tom Webster’s tribute to Todd Cochrane and why the industry still needs people willing to speak up when something is wrong.

Podcasting has expanded its distribution. That doesn’t mean it controls where people discover shows.

Sounds Profitable: Tom Webster’s presentation leads us into YouTube, Spotify, and Netflix, where podcasts compete with much more than other podcasts. James Cridland also cautions against confusing whether someone has ever used a platform with where they regularly listen.

A major part of our conversation is measuring media consumption.

James challenges the IAB’s approach to audio and video, while making another important point: tearing down the download without a workable replacement can undermine the business we already have.

James offers a proposal worth discussing: share advertising revenue with podcast apps that provide useful consumption data.

James argues that apps need a financial reason to invest in discovery and better listening experiences. I raise the concern about taking revenue from creators, and we explore whether growing listening could make that trade worthwhile.

Rob and James also discuss open RSS, HLS video, and Podcasting 2.0 as ways to expand access. That includes discovery built around places and local interests, along with AI production tools that help humans make better content.

Adding video should not make the audio listener a second-class audience. The conversation still needs to work when someone cannot see the screen.

The question is how we keep podcasting open to a wide range of voices while competing in a much bigger media world. More reach matters. So do audience trust, creator choice, and a business that can sustain the work.

Key Topics

– Podcast Week NYC: the business summit, upfronts, CreatorFronts, and Podcast Movement
– Remembering Todd Cochrane and the value of speaking up
– Platform discovery versus open podcast distribution
– Audio and video measurement, advertiser trust, and the download
– James’s proposal to share revenue with podcast apps
– Netflix, YouTube, and rising video production expectations
– Open RSS, HLS, and location-based podcast discovery
– AI production assistance and respecting the audio listener

Guest: James Cridland

Editor of Podnews, co-host of the Podnews Weekly Review, and 2026 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee.

– Podnews Daily Newsletter and Podcast: https://podnews.net
– Podnews Weekly Review: https://weekly.podnews.net

Host: Rob Greenlee

– New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
– Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com
– Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
– Podcast Hall of Fame Inductee & Chair: https://podcasthall.com
– New Media Show: https://NewMediaShow.com
– Adore Network Audio: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-audio
– Adore Network Video: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-video
– Apple Podcasts Audio: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
– Apple Podcasts Video: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-video/id392545647

AI Disclosure

AI tools helped organize and draft these show notes from the completed Episode #688 transcript, and I hand-edited for clarity and accuracy. The conversation and perspectives are human-led, and Rob Greenlee retains editorial responsibility. The New Media Show is human-hosted with human guests.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

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Podcast (audio): Play in new window | Download

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Own Your Identity: Who Controls Your Voice, and Likeness? | Anne Kavanagh, Royall.ai #684

August 30, 2026September 14, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest: Anne Kavanagh, co-founder of Royall.ai, a company working on verified identity, authorization, and licensing pathways for a person’s face, voice, name, and likeness. AI can now reproduce a person’s face, voice, movement, and likeness with increasing realism.

The bigger question is becoming: Who gets to control that identity, authorize its use, and potentially get paid when it has commercial value?

In Episode #684 of the New Media Show, Host Rob Greenlee talks with Anne Kavanagh, co-founder of Royall.ai, about building a new permission and licensing layer around human identity.

The conversation is not about stopping or being anti-AI. It is about establishing something that has largely been missing: proof and authorization before use.

Your Identity Becomes an Asset You Control

Royall.ai is developing what Anne describes as a biometric vault where people can register elements of their identity, including voice, face, likeness, and body motion.

Those assets can be fingerprinted and watermarked, creating the foundation for detecting use, approving or rejecting it, and potentially licensing it commercially.

That changes the discussion from simply asking whether AI can clone someone to asking whether the person actually gave permission.

A creator could potentially say:

Use my voice for this campaign, but only for six months.
Allow my likeness to be used to train this model, but pay me.
Do not use my identity for this purpose at all.
The central principle is simple: You own you.

Protection and Opportunity

The same technology designed to identify unauthorized use could also create legitimate new markets for human identity.

Anne describes a future where AI companies, studios, agencies, platforms, and brands could license verified human data rather than simply collecting material from the public internet.

Creators could choose whether their voice, face, movement, or content can be used for AI training and receive compensation when they opt in.

This becomes especially important as synthetic media becomes indistinguishable from human media. Rob also raises another possibility: as AI-generated content becomes abundant, verified or certified human-created content may itself become more valuable.

Podcast Archives Create Another Rights Problem

The discussion gets particularly relevant to podcasting. A podcast owner may control thousands of hours of archived conversations, but that does not necessarily mean the owner has the right to license every guest’s voice for AI training.

Rob explains that the New Media Show archive has previously attracted interest for conversational AI training, but licensing complete conversations would require permission from the guests whose voices appear in them.

Royall.ai is exploring infrastructure that could help identify those participants, request consent, manage permissions, and create licensing transactions across large content libraries.

That could become a significant issue as decades of podcast, video, music, and creator archives become valuable training material.

Discussion Highlights
– Who should control your voice, face, and digital likeness
– Creating a biometric identity vault
– Consent before AI use
– Detecting unauthorized likeness and voice usage
– Licensing human identity for AI training
– Getting creators paid for authorized use
– Deepfakes, scams, and identity theft
– Why trust is critical to biometric infrastructure
– AI disclosure versus AI-assisted creation
– The rise of verified human-created media
– Creator contracts and synthetic likeness rights
– Licensing podcast archives for AI training
– Why guest consent matters
– Royall.ai as an identity and permission API layer

Chapter Timestamp Markers

00:00 Who controls your likeness and voice identity?
03:00 Introducing Anne Kavanagh and Royall.ai
07:00 How the idea behind Royall.ai developed
09:00 Verified identity, authorization and licensing
10:00 Creating a biometric vault for voice, face and motion
18:00 Detection, reporting and takedown tools
20:00 Opting into AI training and getting paid
24:00 Building a training-grade voice model
28:00 Identity protection becomes an economic opportunity
34:00 Why this is a human issue, not just a creator issue
38:00 Deepfakes, students, scams and identity theft
40:00 The trust challenge of storing biometric identity
43:00 Building a registrar for human identity and likeness
45:00 Royall.ai as part of the technology stack
48:00 The principle: You own you
53:00 AI tools, disclosure and audience trust
59:00 Could certified human content become premium?
01:02:00 Synthetic podcast hosts and transparency
01:04:00 Creator contracts and consent for AI training
01:05:00 Licensing podcast archives and guest voices
01:08:00 Who controls your existing content libraries?
01:11:00 How Royall.ai early access works
01:14:00 Public images, copyright and identity ownership

Anne Kavanagh Guest Links

Royall.ai is currently onboarding users through an early-access process, with registration, fingerprinting, watermarking, detection capabilities, and enterprise/API integrations discussed toward the end of the episode.

Royall.ai
https://royall.ai

Host, Rob Greenlee and Show Links

New Media Show
https://newmediashow.com

New Media Show on YouTube
https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow

Rob Greenlee
https://robgreenlee.com

Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee

Podcast Hall of Fame
https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure

AI tools helped organize and edit the episode to remove filler words; this description was created from the completed full transcript of episode #684. The recorded conversation, human performances, perspectives, editorial direction, and final responsibility for the episode remain with Rob Greenlee and Anne Kavanagh. The New Media Show is human-hosted.

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The Human Signal: What Becomes Valuable in AI Creation Era | Jaymi Bauer #682

August 23, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

When AI content becomes abundant, what becomes scarce?

In Episode #682 of the New Media Show, Host, Rob Greenlee talks with growth and brand strategist Jaymi Bauer. Jaymi is CEO and co-founder of Vaquera Group, creator of Resonance Design, and founder of a new women’s vitality venture called Reign.Care.

She and Rob previously worked together at Microsoft during the Zune and Xbox eras, giving both a long view of how technology continually reshapes media and human behavior.

The conversation is not anti-AI. It is about understanding where AI is powerful and where human creators may still have the advantage.

The Human Signal

Jaymi states that humans feel trust before they intellectually recognize it. We respond to tone, presence, energy, emotion, authenticity, and whether something feels genuine. AI can increasingly reproduce human language, imagery, voices, and creative patterns, but Jaymi believes audiences will continue seeking something deeper: content rooted in real human experience.

Her advice to creators is simple: Become better at AI while becoming even more human. AI as Amplifier, Not the Source

Rob and Jaymi explore AI as a creative and production layer rather than the original source of meaning.

AI can:

Research faster
Organize ideas
Improve production
Expand visual possibilities
Help creators distribute content
Personalize discovery
Build new interactive experiences

But the strongest output still begins with a strong human seed: an idea, experience, perspective, story, or creative intention.

Jaymi shares her experience of heavily using AI on a book proposal. The result was polished, but she felt it had become hollow and disconnected from her own creative voice. That became a reminder that efficiency does not automatically create resonance.

Why Human Content May Become Premium

As synthetic media becomes harder to distinguish from human-created media, Rob raises the possibility that creators may eventually label content as human-hosted or human-created, rather than simply labeling AI content.

Jaymi believes genuine human interaction may eventually feel more valuable precisely because it becomes less common.

That could increase the value of:

Live conversations
Human-created storytelling
Live music and events
Real relationships
Distinctive personal perspectives
Physical experiences
Trusted communities

The future may not be human versus AI. It may be human creativity amplified by AI.

Creators Need AI Literacy

Jaymi strongly advises creators not to ignore AI. Her view is that creators should learn the tools, experiment with them, understand their limitations, and explore what they make possible. But they also need stronger critical thinking and editorial judgment.

Rob and Jaymi discuss how experienced professionals may have an advantage here because they have lived through multiple cycles in technology, media, business, and the economy.

Knowing when AI is wrong, when to stop refining, what matters, and what audiences actually value may become increasingly important skills.

AI Changes Discovery Too. AI is not only creating content. It is increasingly sitting between creators and audiences.

Rob discusses how platforms such as YouTube use AI to analyze media, understand content, personalize recommendations, and decide who should see what.

That means creators are entering an environment where AI may influence:

Creation
Editing
Distribution
Metadata
Search
Recommendations
Audience targeting
Personalization

The creator still provides the human idea, but AI increasingly shapes how that idea reaches the world.

A More Interactive Media Future

The conversation also explores AI-powered audience participation. Rob describes emerging platforms where synthetic personalities, expert knowledge bases, and human audience members can participate in shared conversations.

Instead of traditional one-way media, future shows could include creators, audiences, and AI agents discussing topics together.

That could make podcasts, livestreams, sports media, education, and communities considerably more interactive.

Discussion Highlights
-What Jaymi means by the “human signal”
-Why trust is often felt before it is understood
-AI-generated media versus human-created media
-Why creators should become “superhuman,” not anti-AI
-AI as a creative amplifier
-The importance of critical thinking and editorial judgment
-Why AI-generated work can feel polished but hollow
-How experienced professionals can work effectively with AI
-AI’s growing role in discovery and recommendation
-Personal LLMs and creator knowledge models
-Human and AI participants inside future media experiences
-Why live and human-created experiences could become premium
-The possibility of labeling media as human-hosted
-Creativity, trust, and relationships as long-term advantages

Chapter Markers

00:00 Why the human signal matters
01:32 Introducing Jaymi Bauer
02:48 What is the human signal?
05:35 Can AI reproduce human connection?
09:15 Staying human while using AI
11:22 Collective AI knowledge versus individual human knowledge
13:30 Why audiences may eventually reject synthetic sameness
16:04 Will AI-generated entertainment satisfy us?
18:35 AI as a new creative tool
21:05 Lessons from Xbox and immersive media
23:10 Why gamers still want human creativity
25:10 How humans remain valuable
26:38 The dystopian side of AI
28:10 Could AI eventually give humans more freedom?
30:05 Creativity as a human advantage
31:15 Why creators need AI literacy
33:15 Becoming “superhuman”
34:25 Jaymi’s AI-generated book proposal mistake
36:00 Using AI as a first draft
37:20 Better prompts start with better human thinking
38:25 When AI becomes inefficient
40:20 Humans as AI tutors and experts
42:15 What happens when AI gains real-world experience?
45:10 Human truth and durable brands
48:10 AI becomes the discovery layer
51:00 Personal LLMs and expert AI models
52:20 AI-powered audience participation
55:00 Humans and AI in the same conversation
57:10 AI companionship and relationships
59:55 Will human-created media become premium?
01:01:05 Hybrid human and AI production
01:03:10 Where to find Jaymi
01:04:00 Jaymi’s new vitality venture
01:05:40 Closing thoughts

Jaymi Bauer Guest Links:

Jaymi Bauer on Substack
https://jaymibauer1.substack.com

“The Human Signal”
https://jaymibauer1.substack.com/p/the-human-signal

Vaquera Group
https://vaquera.co

Reign
https://reign.care

About the Host: Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, Chair of the Podcast Hall of Fame, founder of Trust Factor Lab, and longtime new-media executive, creator, strategist, and industry leader.

Through The New Media Show, Rob explores the changing intersection of podcasting, video, creator-led media, artificial intelligence, platforms, audience ownership, trust, monetization, and the future of human-created media.

Host and Show Links

New Media Show
https://newmediashow.com

New Media Show on YouTube
https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow

Rob Greenlee
https://robgreenlee.com

Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee

Podcast Hall of Fame
https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure

AI tools were used to assist with organizing and editing to remove filler words; this episode description was created from the completed full transcript of episode #682. The recorded conversation, human performances, perspectives, editorial direction, and final responsibility for the episode remain with Rob Greenlee and Jaymi Bauer. The New Media Show is human-hosted.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

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Podcast (audio): Play in new window | Download

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How Podcast Distribution Is Changing | Alban Brooke, Buzzsprout #681

August 15, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

In Episode 681 of the New Media Show, host Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Alban Brooke, Head of Marketing at Buzzsprout, for a deep conversation about one of the biggest structural changes in podcasting: the evolution of podcast hosting from audio-file distribution to a broader audio-and-video creator infrastructure.

For most of podcasting’s history, the hosting model was relatively straightforward. A creator uploaded an audio file, the host generated an RSS feed, and that feed distributed the episode to listening apps worldwide.

That podcast hosting model is changing.

Video is once again becoming a significant part of podcasting, and podcast hosting platforms are being asked to do much more than store an MP3 and maintain an RSS feed. They increasingly need to manage video encoding, HLS streaming, direct platform connections, YouTube publishing, Spotify video, Apple Podcasts video, transcripts, analytics, AI-assisted publishing tools, and the traditional audio experience simultaneously.

Buzzsprout, which launched in 2009 as an audio-only podcast host, has now made a major move into video. Alban explains that the turning point was Apple’s decision to support HLS video streaming into Apple Podcasts.

Once Apple committed to HLS, Buzzsprout saw an opportunity to preserve one of podcast hosting’s original promises:

“Upload once and let the hosting platform handle the complexity of getting the show everywhere.”

Buzzsprout’s current video workflow allows creators to upload video and distribute it to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube while continuing to deliver audio to traditional podcast apps.

The technology underneath that process, however, has become much more complicated.

A podcast host may now be managing RSS feeds, HLS playlists, multiple video resolutions, platform APIs, direct uploads, audio extraction, transcripts, and the different requirements of Apple, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon, iHeart, and other services.

Alban argues that creators should not have to understand most of that.
If podcast hosting is doing its job properly, the technical complexity should disappear into the infrastructure. Creators should be able to concentrate on making the show.

That leads Rob and Alban into a larger discussion about RSS and what it still represents.

RSS itself is not magical, Alban says. What matters is what RSS enables: a direct and portable connection between creators and their audiences. A creator using an open podcast feed can switch from one hosting company to another without rebuilding their audience from scratch. The relationship is not entirely controlled by a recommendation algorithm or a single platform. Alban contrasts this with YouTube and other social platforms, where algorithms ultimately determine how much of a creator’s content reaches subscribers.

A creator can build a large audience on a platform and still experience dramatic changes in reach when the algorithm, product strategy, or monetization model changes.

Podcasting offers something different.

Alban describes media distribution as a spectrum ranging from discovery to delivery. At one end are platforms such as TikTok and YouTube, which are extremely effective at helping users discover content. The platform decides what it believes each person wants to see next.

At the other end are systems such as RSS and email, where the user intentionally subscribes and expects to receive what that creator publishes.

The opportunity for modern creators may be to use both.

YouTube, social video platforms, and algorithmic platforms can enable discovery. RSS can provide reliable delivery and audience portability after that relationship is established.

That combination may become one of podcasting’s greatest advantages.

HLS, RSS and the Future of more Open Video Podcasting

Rob and Alban explore how HLS video could extend those same open-distribution principles into video.

Apple’s implementation currently involves a direct API relationship, but the podcast ecosystem is also experimenting with the alternate enclosure tag in RSS, which can place another media format inside the RSS feed.

Buzzsprout has already experimented with alternate enclosures on selected shows, although Alban explains that the company is approaching broader implementation carefully because video creates dramatically larger bandwidth demands than audio.

A bot downloading thousands of MP3 files is one problem. A bot repeatedly requesting multi-gigabyte video assets is another larger issue.

The larger objective, however, remains open distribution.

Alban believes HLS has the potential to enable multiple podcast applications to support video without forcing creators to confine their entire video audience to a single closed platform.

Can Video Damage the Audio Experience?

The conversation then turns to one of the most important creative questions raised by video podcasting. What happens to audio listeners when the video version becomes the source for both experiences?

Alban shares an example of watching a video podcast on Netflix where George Clooney and the host repeatedly discussed an object visible on camera without ever explaining what it was.

A viewer understood the conversation. An audio listener would have had no idea what they were discussing. That is exactly the kind of problem Alban wants creators to avoid.

His recommendation is that podcasts remain audio-first in their communication, even when video is an important part of the production.

That does not mean ignoring video.

Creators can use cameras, sets, graphics, demonstrations, lighting, and other visual elements. But when something important is happening on screen, the host should provide enough verbal context that the audio listener can still follow the conversation.

Rob raises the other side of the issue.

There is a real difference between producing a video podcast and producing a highly visual YouTube show.

YouTube creators may use graphics, demonstrations, rapid editing, screen captures, text, and visual storytelling that cannot realistically be translated into audio. If every visual element must work perfectly for someone with their eyes closed, video creativity can become constrained.

That may eventually create two related but distinct production approaches: shows built as unified audio/video podcasts and shows designed primarily as visual media.

Why Platforms Want Video

Alban believes the major platforms have obvious reasons for encouraging video. Video keeps audiences looking at the screen.

YouTube, Spotify, Instagram, TikTok, and other platforms benefit when users remain inside their applications, continually moving from one piece of content to the next.

Short-form vertical video takes this even further.

Alban says he deliberately limits his own use of platforms such as TikTok and Instagram Reels because he finds the experience almost too effective at holding attention.

Audio works differently.

A podcast can accompany the listener while running, driving, traveling, cleaning, mowing the lawn, or simply living life.

Alban describes audio as a companion to life, while highly addictive video shorts platforms will increasingly compete to become the dominant activity itself.

We should remain strongly optimistic about audio.

Why Apple’s Move Changed the Market

Rob asks why Apple chose this moment to place renewed emphasis on video, even though video podcasts have technically existed within Apple’s ecosystem for many years.

Alban points to several forces coming together. YouTube has aggressively embraced podcasts and repeatedly highlighted the enormous amount of podcast viewing happening across its platform.

Spotify has expanded its video strategy.

Meanwhile, members of the open podcasting community have spent years exploring HLS as a more practical way of distributing video.

Once Apple embraced HLS, Buzzsprout concluded that the technology had enough platform support to justify a major investment.

Buzzsprout then built its video product around simplifying distribution across Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and traditional audio apps.

Why 1080p Video Matters

Buzzsprout also decided to support 1080p video, something Rob sees as increasingly important as podcasts move from phones and laptops onto large television screens. HLS can provide different video streams depending on the device and connection.

A mobile device (phone, pad, or glasses) may not need the same resolution as a large television or large-screen laptop or desktop computer.

But as Apple Podcasts expands onto Apple TV and YouTube continues to report substantial podcast consumption on television screens, creators need source video that looks good in the living room.

Rob and Alban agree that this is another sign that podcast distribution is becoming much broader than that of traditional listening apps.

Audio Is Not Going Away

Despite Buzzsprout’s investment in video, Alban does not believe every podcast needs cameras. Some content is inherently better as audio. Scripted audio, documentary storytelling, intimate conversations, educational programming, and many other formats can deliver everything the audience needs without video.

Alban does not believe audio needs a technological gimmick to survive.
Spatial audio, immersive sound, and advanced codecs can create interesting experiences, but the central power of podcasting remains remarkably simple:

“The human voice and a compelling story.”

Good audio recorded decades ago can still be powerful today because the idea, voice, and storytelling remain meaningful.

Video is therefore additive rather than a replacement for audio.

Is Podcast Hosting Becoming a Commodity?

Rob then challenges Alban with another industry question:

Simply storing a media file is no longer difficult. Most hosting platforms can generate RSS feeds, distribute episodes, and provide common publishing features.

Alban agrees that hosting, narrowly defined as file storage, can look commoditized. But he argues that this misses the bigger job a podcast-hosting company should perform.

Buzzsprout sees its role as helping creators successfully navigate the entire process.

That includes technology, education, human support, distribution, publishing assistance, video, analytics, transcripts, and reducing the emotional and technical friction involved in putting something meaningful into the world. The competitive advantage is not simply storing the file. It is helping the creator succeed.

AI Should Remove Work, Not the Human

That philosophy carries directly into the episode’s discussion about artificial intelligence.

Buzzsprout already uses AI to help creators generate titles, descriptions, social content, blog material, chapter markers, and transcripts. Alban is comfortable with AI handling parts of production that creators may not enjoy. Buzzsprout’s own materials identify its Co-Host AI tools as assisting with publishing tasks, including titles, descriptions, chapters, and supporting content.

What he does not want AI to replace is the reason many people became creators in the first place.

Alban enjoys researching an idea, thinking about it, writing, talking with people, recording conversations, and producing something that reflects human experience.

If AI can clean audio, transcribe the episode, or reduce repetitive production work, that can be useful.

If it replaces the host, opinion, conversation, or creative process entirely, something important may be lost. Alban compares his preferred relationship with AI to using a calculator.

The technology is valuable. Yet, blindly refusing to use it entirely could be unnecessarily limiting. But just because a technology can perform a task does not mean the creator should hand over every task.

The important question is:

“Which parts of creating matter to you enough that you want to remain the person doing them?”

AI, Disclosure and Audience Trust

The deeper issue is trust.

Alban describes hearing what he believed was an AI-generated host-read advertisement in a podcast he regularly listened to. When he later asked the creator about AI and received a categorical denial of using it, Alban’s confidence in the show changed.

The problem was not simply that AI may have been used. The problem was the perception that the creator was not being transparent about it.

Rob and Alban agree that disclosure becomes increasingly important as synthetic voices, AI-written scripts, avatars, automated media, and cloned personalities become harder to distinguish from human-created content.

“Rob suggests that the industry may eventually move beyond labeling AI toward verifying or certifying what is human.”

As synthetic AI-generated audio and video content becomes more common, audiences may increasingly value signals showing that a conversation, performance, appearance, or relationship involves real humans.

That could increase the importance of live events, face-to-face meetings, physical communities, concerts, coffee shops, and other experiences where human presence is difficult to fake.

The Return of Offline Experiences

The episode broadens into a discussion about younger generations and technology.

Alban notes that some younger people are becoming interested in non-connected devices, point-and-shoot cameras, film cameras, books, and other technologies that do not constantly demand attention.

Rob sees similar interest developing around discontinued devices such as the Microsoft Zune portable media player devices.

The larger trend may represent a reaction to always-connected life.

Technology gives creators unprecedented reach, but human relationships still develop through attention, responsiveness, shared experiences, and time spent together.

That principle also connects back to podcasting.

Podcasting’s open architecture allows content to flow across applications and devices while maintaining a direct creator-to-audience relationship.

As Alban sees it, the strongest future for podcasting combines the best of both worlds:

“Open delivery through podcasting, algorithmic discovery through larger platforms, video when it adds value, audio when audio is enough, AI where it removes friction, and humans at the center of the creative relationship.”

Topics Covered in This Episode
– Why Buzzsprout moved from audio-only into video podcasting
– Apple HLS video and the turning point for podcast hosts
– Upload-once distribution across Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and audio apps
– Why technical complexity should disappear for creators
– RSS as creator ownership and audience portability
– Discovery versus reliable delivery
– Algorithms compared with open podcast distribution
– Alternate enclosures and open video
– Protecting audio listeners when video is added
– Unified audio/video podcast experiences
– Video podcasts versus highly visual YouTube productions
– Why platforms want creators producing more video
– Short-form video and attention
– Why audio remains a companion medium
– 1080p video and television podcast consumption
– Why audio-only podcasting remains healthy
– Is podcast hosting becoming a commodity?
– Buzzsprout’s creator-support philosophy
– AI-assisted podcast production
– Which parts of creation should remain human
– AI voices, disclosure, and audience trust
– The possibility of verified-human media
– Younger generations and offline technology
– The renewed appeal of disconnected devices
– Open podcasting in the Liquid Content Era

Chapter Timestamp Markers
00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 681
00:24 Podcast hosting is moving beyond the audio file
01:18 Buzzsprout enters the video podcast era
02:00 Introducing Alban Brooke of Buzzsprout
03:15 What changed Buzzsprout’s thinking about video?
04:01 Why Buzzsprout spent years focused on audio only
04:50 Apple HLS video becomes the turning point
05:33 Upload once and distribute video and audio everywhere
06:00 Podcast distribution becomes technically more complicated
07:00 Why the hosting platform should hide the complexity
09:21 Podcasters increasingly do not know what RSS is
10:53 Why RSS still matters
11:08 RSS, creator control, and platform algorithm risk
13:08 The difference between podcast delivery and discovery
14:35 Using YouTube for discovery and RSS for audience delivery
15:37 HLS brings open distribution principles to video
16:49 Alternative enclosures and open video podcasting
17:18 The bandwidth and bot problem with video
18:04 Rob’s dual audio and video RSS strategy
19:20 The tension between MP4 video and HLS
20:15 What happens when video becomes the source of the audio?
20:52 The Netflix example of a broken audio experience
22:01 Why adding video can unintentionally hurt audio listeners
22:50 Alban’s case for audio-first communication
23:52 Why unified audio, video, and transcripts need to stay in sync
25:04 Video podcasts versus YouTube-first visual shows
26:15 Why platforms keep pushing creators toward video
27:15 The addictive power of short-form vertical video
28:32 Audio as a companion to real life
29:20 Why Apple chose this moment to emphasize video
30:34 The podcast industry’s push toward HLS
31:03 YouTube and Spotify increase competitive pressure
32:00 Why Apple’s HLS implementation changed Buzzsprout’s plans
33:23 Buzzsprout goes all-in on simplified video distribution
34:03 Why Buzzsprout chose 1080p
35:04 Podcast consumption moves onto television screens
35:41 How HLS adapts video quality to different devices
37:09 Apple TV and the big-screen podcast opportunity
38:43 Could HLS eventually replace audio delivery?
39:16 Why Alban believes audio-only podcasting remains strong
40:35 Video audiences can be additive rather than replacements
41:14 Could audio become more immersive?
42:02 Spatial audio and the history of immersive sound
43:03 Why the human voice matters more than audio technology
44:02 Does audio even need to compete with video?
45:33 Video is additive, not the death of audio
46:51 Is podcast hosting becoming a commodity?
48:00 Hosting versus full creator infrastructure
49:03 Removing technical and emotional barriers for creators
50:14 Why human support still differentiates podcast platforms
51:17 Where AI fits into podcast hosting
52:00 Buzzsprout Co-Host AI and production assistance
52:33 Using AI for tasks creators do not enjoy
53:32 Protect the parts of creating you actually love
54:28 Rob’s use of AI in pre-production and post-production
55:04 Why flowing human conversations resist scripting
55:43 The value of unscripted New Media Show conversations
56:27 AI is already capable of strong writing
57:06 Why the act of creation still matters
58:47 Creator attitudes toward AI become increasingly divided
1:00:44 Using AI like a calculator
1:02:09 AI-generated host reads and the trust problem
1:03:27 Why undisclosed AI can damage audience relationships
1:04:26 AI use versus dishonesty about AI use
1:05:17 Will we eventually label human-created content instead of AI-generated content?
1:06:19 Why real-world human experiences may become more valuable
1:07:38 Could “Certified Human” become a media signal?
1:08:20 AI avatars, recruiting fraud, and human verification
1:09:21 Trust can take years to build and minutes to destroy
1:10:35 Finding the middle ground on AI
1:11:07 Where AI saves time without replacing the creator
1:12:08 Preserve the human parts that matter
1:13:03 Generational differences around technology and AI
1:14:11 Gen Alpha, point-and-shoot cameras, and rejecting connectivity
1:15:01 Designing intentional distance from addictive media
1:16:18 The unexpected return of the Microsoft Zune
1:17:12 Books, film cameras, and disconnected technology
1:18:19 Human relationships existed before social platforms
1:19:01 Alban’s relationship with social media
1:20:17 Why offline relationships can matter more
1:21:19 Media creation becomes increasingly fragmented
1:22:00 Podcasting as truly liquid and open content
1:22:34 Closing thoughts with Alban Brooke
1:23:00 Where to find The New Media Show

Guest Links: Alban Brooke, Head of Marketing, Buzzsprout
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com
Buzzsprout Video Podcasting: https://www.buzzsprout.com/features
Buzzcast: https://buzzcast.buzzsprout.com
Alban Brooke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/albanbrooke
Alban Brooke is Head of Marketing at Buzzsprout and co-host of Buzzcast, where he discusses podcast technology, creator trends, industry developments, and practical strategies for podcasters.

Host, Rob Greenlee, and New Media Show Links

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure Note
AI tools were used to create a video and audio introduction clip, episode images, help organize and edit this episode and summarize its description, and create chapter markers from the completed Episode 681 transcript. The recorded conversation, human performances, guest perspectives, editorial direction, final review, and responsibility for the published content remain with actual humans, Rob Greenlee and Alban Brooke.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | Podcast Index | RSS

Podcast (audio): Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android | Podcast Index | RSS

Liquid Content Era Needs New Measurement | Steven Goldstein, Amplifi Media #680

August 10, 2026August 10, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest Steven Goldstein, Founder and CEO, Amplifi Media In Episode 680 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Steven Goldstein, founder and CEO of Amplifi Media, for a timely, future-leaning discussion.

We have entered the Liquid Content Era.

A podcast conversation can now become an audio episode, full-length YouTube video, Spotify video, Apple Podcasts video, vertical clips, social posts, articles, newsletters, searchable transcripts, and potentially AI-discovered answers. The underlying content may be the same, but the way people encounter and consume it varies by platform.

That creates an enormous opportunity for creators. It also creates a measurement problem.

Podcasting built much of its advertising business around the download. That metric helped turn an emerging medium into a legitimate advertising marketplace, but Steven argues that it no longer adequately represents how audiences consume modern shows.

Downloads were created in an era when bandwidth was limited and podcast applications often downloaded episodes to devices before the listener played them. Today, streaming is increasingly immediate, video consumption is growing, audiences move between devices, and clips can sometimes reach more people than the original episode.

The question is no longer simply: How many times was the podcast downloaded?

The better question may be: How many people actually listened to, watched, encountered the advertising, and engaged with the creator’s content across the entire media ecosystem?

Why advertisers need this change.

Large brands already buy television, web, streaming video, social, and other digital media through dashboards that provide comparable impression-based reporting. Podcasting remains fragmented across RSS analytics, platform dashboards, YouTube views, Spotify data, and different definitions of what constitutes meaningful exposure.

That fragmentation makes podcast media harder to buy at scale.

Steven explains that advertisers do not want separate teams manually reconciling podcast audio, video, clips, and platform metrics.

If podcasting wants to attract substantially more advertising investment, it needs to fit more easily into the systems marketers already use.

That leads into one of the episode’s central topics: the AMP Accords.

The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting was formed to address three persistent problems:

Defining a podcast
Standardizing exposure metrics across platforms
Creating a more consistent way to evaluate advertising effectiveness.

The AMP Accords describe their goal as establishing cross-platform measurement standards spanning open RSS and closed platforms.

One of the biggest proposed shifts is moving toward a 30-second play as a standardized exposure metric across audio and video.

Steven is less concerned about whether 30 seconds ultimately proves to be the perfect number than he is about establishing a common starting point.

Media measurement has always evolved.

Steven draws on his experience in radio, where audience measurement moved from handwritten listening diaries to electronic Portable People Meters. The change was disruptive. Some formats gained audience under the new methodology, and others lost it. But advertisers demanded better information, and the industry eventually adapted.

Podcasting is facing a similar moment.

The industry should not allow the pursuit of a perfect measurement system to delay the adoption of a more useful one.

The AMP framework also addresses advertising impressions and audience measurement. That matters because an advertiser ultimately wants to know whether someone actually received an advertising message, not simply whether a media file was automatically delivered to a device.

Rob and Steven discuss the tension this creates for established podcast measurement.

Some publishers remain strongly committed to the download because it has provided consistency and an open measurement methodology for many years. Steven gives the download credit for helping build the podcast advertising business but believes the medium now needs to move forward.

The shift becomes even more important when video enters the equation.

YouTube has become a major podcast-consumption platform with sophisticated analytics on views, watch time, audience behavior, retention, and discovery.

Spotify has added video.

Apple is expanding its video capabilities through HLS. Meanwhile, audiences increasingly move fluidly between audio and video rather than seeing them as completely separate media products.

This raises another difficult question:

What exactly is a podcast now?

The AMP Accords propose a broad podcast definition that encompasses audio or video and open or closed distribution, provided the program remains meaningful without requiring constant visual attention.

Steven likes the basic framework but emphasizes that audiences will ultimately shape the word’s meaning.

People already call shows “podcasts” based on format and experience rather than on technical infrastructure. Most listeners do not know whether a show uses RSS feeds, direct platform uploads, streaming video, or another delivery method.

Rob raises a concern about defining podcasting too strongly through an audio lens.

If a video must always function perfectly with the viewer’s eyes closed, does that discourage creators from investing in richer visual storytelling?

That question becomes increasingly important as video production matures.

A modern video podcast can include visual demonstrations, graphics, archival material, set design, screen sharing, camera movement, and other elements that provide additional value to the viewer. Rob argues that creators should retain the freedom to build excellent audio and excellent video experiences, even when the two versions are not identical.

The discussion then moves to another major part of liquid content: short-form video.

Shorts or Clips were initially treated primarily as promotional tools designed to push people toward the full episode. That assumption is changing.

Some audience members may never consume the full show. They may know a creator entirely through Shorts, Reels, TikTok, or other excerpts.

Steven describes this as both an opportunity and a potential problem.

If a creator publishes the four best moments from an hour-long conversation, some viewers may decide those clips provide everything they wanted from the episode.

That means short-form may represent a separate audience, not simply a funnel into long-form media.

At the same time, social clips have become an increasingly important discovery mechanism.

Creators cannot simply ignore the places where audiences spend their time.

That is the essence of liquid content: the audience determines where and how the media gets consumed.

Artificial intelligence adds another layer.

Steven believes creators should increasingly think beyond traditional SEO, Search Engine Optimization, toward AEO, Answer Engine Optimization.

AI systems are increasingly becoming discovery engines themselves. Instead of searching through a list of websites or podcast episodes, a user may ask an AI system a specific question and receive a direct answer assembled from available sources.

That shift could be especially valuable for niche creators.

A podcast with deep authority in a narrow subject may become an important source of AI-generated answers if its content is well-structured, transcribed, accessible, and clearly associated with expertise in that category.

Rob expands the discussion into recommendation systems.

YouTube already uses AI extensively to determine which content should be presented to which audience. Similar systems will increasingly influence discovery throughout digital media.

That creates a harder competitive environment.

Steven argues that mediocre content will be crushed. As audiences face effectively unlimited choices and algorithms become better at filtering those choices, simply producing acceptable content may no longer be enough. Shows need differentiation, relevance, expertise, strong personalities, or storytelling that holds attention.

That does not mean every successful podcast needs millions of listeners.

Steven points to niche podcasts serving highly specific professional communities. A show about HVAC systems may never become a mainstream entertainment hit, but it can still become an extremely valuable business if it reaches the right technicians, manufacturers, buyers, and industry decision-makers.

Influence within a valuable niche can matter more than raw audience scale.

The conversation closes by examining the tension between short-form and long-form media.

Consumers are time-starved.

Summaries, clips, AI-generated takeaways, and compressed content are becoming increasingly useful.

Yet long-form is not disappearing.

Joe Rogan, Acquired, Dan Carlin, and other successful long-form creators demonstrate that audiences will still spend hours with content when the storytelling, expertise, personality, or subject deserves the investment.

The real challenge is earning the audience’s time.

In the Liquid Content Era, creators are no longer simply publishing episodes. They are building adaptable media assets that can move across platforms, formats, screens, algorithms, and audiences.

The measurement systems now need to catch up.

Topics Covered in This Episode:
-What Steven Goldstein means by the Liquid Content Era
-Why one piece of content now becomes many media products
-Why the podcast download is becoming less representative of consumption
-What podcasting can learn from radio and television measurement
-Why advertisers need unified cross-platform metrics
-The AMP Accords and the future of podcast measurement
-The proposed 30-second play standard
-Plays, audience, ad impressions, and ad audience
-Audio versus video measurement
-Apple HLS, YouTube, Spotify, and platform competition
-Why the definition of a podcast continues to evolve
-Whether video podcasts need to work with the viewer’s eyes closed
-The difference between clipping content and creating for vertical video
-Why clips may represent a separate audience
-AI and Answer Engine Optimization
-How algorithms increasingly control media discovery
-Why mediocre content faces greater pressure
-High-value niche content versus mass audience scale
-What it takes to create a hit today
-Why long-form content can still win

Chapter Time Stamp Markers
00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 680
00:36 The Liquid Content Era needs new measurement
01:10 Introducing Steven Goldstein of Amplifi Media
02:07 Why media has entered the Liquid Content Era
03:18 The New York Times as a liquid content example
04:41 Podcasting moves from audio into multimedia
05:29 Video was always part of podcasting
06:22 Why the download originally made sense
07:13 Streaming changes how podcast consumption is measured
08:08 What podcasting can learn from radio measurement
09:11 From listening diaries to electronic measurement
10:00 Why advertisers need podcasting inside their dashboards
11:05 Audio and video buying remain separated at agencies
12:06 How television moved toward impression-based measurement
13:13 Short-form video enters the podcast media mix
14:12 Introducing the AMP Accords
15:08 What the AMP Accords propose
17:03 What AMP got right and what could go wrong
18:41 Why 30 seconds is a starting point, not the final answer
20:06 Moving beyond the download
21:23 Downloads do not always equal actual listening
22:03 The IAB and industry resistance to changing measurement
23:20 Some shows will gain, and others will lose under better metrics
24:18 Why Steven believes the download cannot be the future
25:11 Consumer behavior is forcing podcasting to change
26:02 Vertical video becomes a major media business
27:01 Can YouTube, Spotify, and Apple align around new metrics?
29:16 Comparing 30-second and 60-second exposure
31:07 Plays, audience, ad impressions, and advertiser needs
32:16 Why advertisers dislike hidden podcast audience numbers
33:07 Measurement matters differently for niche podcasts
34:19 How audiences move between audio and video
36:05 Should audio and video come from the same media file?
37:02 Why measurement does not need to be perfect to improve
38:16 Liquid content keeps expanding into new formats
39:14 What qualifies as a podcast now?
40:02 The audience may ultimately define podcasting
41:35 Does “eyes closed” unfairly prioritize audio?
43:05 Could the new definition weaken video creativity?
44:31 Separate audio and video podcast experiences
46:07 Vertical video versus automatically generated clips
46:52 Are clips replacing the full episode?
48:04 Short-form audiences may be entirely different
49:00 AI enters the Liquid Content Era
49:28 SEO shifts toward Answer Engine Optimization
50:27 AI becomes the first layer of media discovery
51:13 Algorithms judge what audiences see
53:04 Why mediocre content will be crushed
54:02 What qualifies as quality content?
55:04 Niche media does not need mass scale
57:07 How specialized podcasts can build valuable businesses
58:38 Why podcast creation remains flat despite creator growth
1:00:16 Creators no longer need traditional media gatekeepers
1:01:21 What the COVID podcast boom taught the industry
1:02:27 High-value content and why hits are hard
1:03:05 Differentiation as the foundation of a successful show
1:05:05 What television can teach podcasters about format innovation
1:06:22 Why creators compete for increasingly limited audience time
1:07:34 Short-form versus long-form content
1:08:22 Why people increasingly use AI to summarize long content
1:09:08 Joe Rogan, Acquired, and why long-form still succeeds
1:10:05 Gen Z will consume long content when it earns the time
1:11:01 Structured YouTube content versus podcast conversations
1:13:00 Final thoughts on the changing New Media landscape
1:14:00 Where to find The New Media Show

Guest: Steven Goldstein, Founder and CEO, Amplifi Media

Amplifi Media: https://www.amplifimedia.com
About Steven Goldstein: https://www.amplifimedia.com/about
Steven Goldstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-goldstein-a057b54
Amplifi Media on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/amplifi-media

Steven Goldstein is founder and CEO of Amplifi Media and teaches The Business of Podcasting at NYU. His current work focuses heavily on the shift toward cross-platform audio, video, and social distribution, as well as what he describes as the Liquid Content Era.

AMP Accords

Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting: https://ampaccords.com

The AMP Accords focus on three areas: standardizing impression metrics, developing cross-platform performance measurement, and creating a common industry definition of a podcast.

Host, Rob Greenlee, and New Media Show Links

AI Disclosure Note:

AI tools were used to create a video and audio introduction clip, episode images, help organize and edit this episode and summarize its description, and create chapter markers from the completed Episode 680 transcript. The recorded conversation, human performances, guest perspectives, editorial direction, final review, and responsibility for the published content remain with actual humans Rob Greenlee and Steven Goldstein.

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Blubrry’s Next Chapter | Barry Kantz, CEO/CFO #678

August 3, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

In Episode 678 of the New Media Show, host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Barry Kantz, CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting, for a candid conversation about Blubrry’s leadership transition, the legacy of (RIP) former CEO Todd Cochrane, independent podcasting, video, artificial intelligence, monetization, measurement, human support, and the changing podcast-hosting market.

For more than 20 years, Blubrry and its parent company, RawVoice, have helped build and support the open podcast ecosystem. The sudden passing of Blubrry founder and longtime New Media Show co-host Todd Cochrane forced the company, its team, and Todd’s family to navigate an unexpected personal and business transition.

Barry explains how Blubrry responded, how leadership responsibilities shifted, and how his management approach differs from Todd’s hard-charging entrepreneurial style. Barry is bringing a more data-driven and systems-focused approach while trusting Blubrry’s experienced remote team to carry the company forward.

The conversation also examines how podcasting itself is changing.

Audio remains central to the medium, but video has become part of how audiences define and experience podcasts. Rob and Barry discuss YouTube discovery, the overlap between watching and listening, short-form clips, RSS distribution, Apple’s HLS video support, alternative enclosures, Podcasting 2.0, and Blubrry’s Vid2Pod tool for turning YouTube videos into audio podcast episodes.

Barry also shares an update on Blubrry’s HLS video development and discusses the company’s new lower-priced starter plan introduced around the time of the recording.

Artificial intelligence is another major part of Blubrry’s next chapter.

Barry explains how he uses Claude as a daily assistant for analytics, automation, research, and company operations.

Barry sees AI as a way to make podcast creation and management easier, especially for creators who may not have extensive technical experience.

At the same time, Blubrry’s larger goal is to use technology to support human expression rather than replace the human connection that gives podcasting its value.

Rob and Barry discuss low-effort AI-generated content, synthetic media, voice cloning, the limitations of automated clipping tools, and the growing need to distinguish human-hosted shows from fully automated productions.

The discussion then moves into monetization and the opportunities still available to independent creators.

Barry argues that smaller shows can create meaningful business value when they serve a clearly defined audience and develop strong relationships with listeners. Creators do not necessarily need millions of downloads. A focused show with several hundred deeply engaged listeners can provide valuable access to a professional, geographic, or consumer community.

Barry also reflects on Blubrry’s early work with host-read advertising and Todd Cochrane’s long-running sponsorship relationship with GoDaddy as examples of how trust, consistency, niche relevance, and audience connection can create durable advertiser value.

Rob and Barry also examine the challenge of measuring audio and video under a common standard.

HLS video, progressive audio downloads, platform-controlled playback, and various delivery methods complicate the determination of what should count as a verified play. The discussion explores why common measurement matters to advertisers and why the industry may need different technical approaches for audio and video consumption.

The episode closes with a broader look at the increasingly competitive podcast-hosting market.

Hosting, storage, and delivery have become commodities. The competitive difference now comes from the tools, services, support, analytics, workflows, distribution options, and human expertise built around the infrastructure.

For Blubrry, that includes PowerPress, WordPress integration, video support, Vid2Pod, Podcasting 2.0 features, AI-assisted workflows, monetization options, analytics, and access to experienced human support.

Both reflect on the legacy Todd Cochrane helped create and provide a detailed look at how Blubrry plans to move forward in a media environment shaped by audio, video, AI, open distribution, creator ownership, and changing audience expectations.

Key Discussion Topics:

– Blubrry’s transition following Todd Cochrane’s passing
– Barry Kantz’s leadership and management approach
– How the Blubrry team responded to sudden change
– Todd’s influence on podcasting and the open ecosystem
– The evolving definition of a podcast
– Audience movement between watching and listening
– YouTube discovery and short-form video
– Blubrry’s Vid2Pod technology
– Apple HLS video support
– RSS, alternative enclosures, and Podcasting 2.0
– Blubrry’s lower-priced starter plan
– AI-assisted podcast production and operations
– Human-hosted media versus automated content
– Voice cloning, authenticity, and audience trust
– Monetization for independent and niche creators
– Host-read advertising and direct sponsorships
– Measuring audio and video consumption
– Podcast hosting as a commodity
– PowerPress and the continuing role of WordPress
– Human customer support as a competitive advantage
– The future of independent podcasting

Chapter Time Stamps:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 678
00:44 Blubrry’s role in the open podcast ecosystem
02:03 Introducing Barry Kantz, CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting
03:31 The sudden loss of former co-founder/CEO of Blubrry, Todd Cochrane
05:22 How the Blubrry team responded
06:29 Barry’s leadership style compared with Todd’s
08:17 Bringing data and operational systems into the company
09:57 How Todd might view today’s podcast market
11:11 Video becomes part of podcasting
13:20 Blubrry’s Vid2Pod product
14:46 Barry’s transition from CFO to CEO
18:14 The opportunity for independent creators
20:00 Who now defines what a podcast is?
21:07 Audiences move between watching and listening
23:24 YouTube discovery and the importance of Shorts
24:55 The limitations of AI-generated clips
26:20 Blubrry’s Apple HLS video rollout
28:12 Blubrry introduces a lower-priced starter plan
29:08 Alternative enclosures and Podcasting 2.0
30:34 Barry’s use of Claude as an AI assistant
32:02 Supporting human creators while limiting AI slop
33:20 Voice cloning and the challenge of replicating humanity
36:18 Blubrry’s philosophy on podcast monetization
37:30 How niche shows can attract direct sponsors
39:27 Managing expectations for new podcasters
43:16 Measuring HLS video and audio downloads
46:45 New competition in podcast hosting
47:36 Why hosting has become a commodity
50:45 Product focus, acquisitions, and platform complexity
52:01 WordPress, PowerPress, and AI-assisted websites
55:00 Blubrry’s commitment to human customer support
57:31 Closing thoughts on Blubrry’s future

About the Guest:

Barry Kantz is CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting and one of the original founders of its parent company, RawVoice.

Barry has produced podcasts since 2005 and has worked with Blubrry throughout its more than 20-year history. His responsibilities have included company finance, legal affairs, human resources, analytics, operations, and business leadership.

Following the passing of Blubrry founder Todd Cochrane, Barry stepped into the company’s primary leadership role. He is now guiding Blubrry through its next chapter as podcasting expands across audio, video, artificial intelligence, open RSS distribution, WordPress, and creator-led media.

Blubrry Podcasting
https://blubrry.com

Blubrry Leadership and Company Information
https://blubrry.com/about

Barry Kantz on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kantzb

Blubrry Podcast Insider
https://blubrry.com/podcast-insider

About the Host:

Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, Chair of the Podcast Hall of Fame, and a longtime new-media executive, creator, strategist, and industry leader. He is the co-founder and current host of The New Media Show and the founder of Trust Factor Lab. Rob has worked across podcasting, radio, digital media, audio, video, creator platforms, partnerships, distribution, monetization, and emerging AI-assisted media for more than 26 years.

His previous leadership roles include Microsoft, PodcastOne, Spreaker, and Libsyn, where he helped shape the growth of podcasting, distribution platforms, creator partnerships, and digital audio.

Through The New Media Show, Rob explores how podcasting fits inside the larger new-media ecosystem, including video, livestreaming, artificial intelligence, platforms, audience ownership, intellectual property, advertising, trust, and sustainable creator businesses.

New Media Show
https://newmediashow.com

The New Media Show on YouTube
https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow

New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649

Rob Greenlee
https://robgreenlee.com

Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee

Rob Greenlee on YouTube
https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee

Podcast Hall of Fame
https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure:

AI tools were used to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the completed episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain with Rob Greenlee. This description reflects the substance of the recorded conversation between Barry Kantz and Rob Greenlee.

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How Brands Buy Creator Media | Dan Granger, Oxford Road #677

July 26, 2026July 12, 2026 ~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

In Episode 677 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Dan Granger, founder and CEO of Oxford Road, for a detailed conversation about how personality-led media is changing what brands buy, how audiences are measured, and what the podcast industry must do to support its next stage of growth.

Audiences increasingly follow people rather than traditional media channels.

A trusted personality can carry an audience across podcasts, YouTube, livestreams, newsletters, social platforms, communities, events, and direct business relationships.

Advertisers, however, still tend to purchase and measure those formats as separate media channels.

That disconnect is becoming one of the largest challenges facing creator media. A creator may record a single conversation and distribute it across multiple platforms, yet each platform reports exposure differently. Advertisers are then left trying to compare downloads, streams, video views, watch time, impressions, attribution data, and host-read performance without a consistent standard.

Dan has spent his career connecting advertisers with personality-driven media. Oxford Road now describes its work as building performance systems across audio, video, creator, and programmatic media, with Dan serving as the company’s CEO.

The conversation begins with Oxford Road’s growing investment in bringing brands, creators, platforms, and media leaders together in person.

Dan explains how the company’s CAO Summit developed from the idea of a “Chief Audio Officer,” the person inside a brand responsible for making audio advertising work. That responsibility may belong to a founder, marketing leader, media buyer, or growth executive rather than someone with a formal audio title.

The CAO Summit was designed as a peer-learning environment where advertisers could speak openly with other advertisers about measurement, attribution, creative performance, and the practical problems preventing brands from spending more in podcasts and creator media. Oxford Road continues to position the CAO Summit as a meeting point for the marketers, platforms, and creators shaping what it calls “Podcast+” media.

They also discuss the Independent Podcast and Creator Awards, also known as the Indie PaC Awards. The program was created to recognize independently owned creators and shows at a time when consolidation continues across podcasting and digital media.

Dan argues that independent creators remain central to the value of podcasting.

Creators who maintain closer relationships with their audiences, retain more editorial control, and deliver strong results for advertisers. Oxford Road’s own published ORBIT rankings show that independent shows account for a large share of its strongest-performing podcast inventory.

Defining an independent creator is difficult, though.

A creator may own the intellectual property while accepting a minimum guarantee from a platform. A show may be represented by a large network without being owned by that company. A successful personality may have substantial corporate support while retaining full editorial control.

The Indie PaC criteria attempt to consider who owns the content, whether the show publishes consistently, and whether the podcast or creator channel is a central part of the person’s business rather than a side project created primarily to support an existing celebrity career. The inaugural awards were announced as an event focused on creator ownership and independently produced media.

That discussion leads into the episode’s central theme: personalities are becoming media businesses.

Creators once waited for a network, publisher, studio, or broadcaster to select them.

Today, personalities can build audiences directly and expand across formats without waiting for a traditional gatekeeper. Their name, voice, perspective, and relationship with the audience can become the media’s primary brand.

Dan believes advertising dollars will continue moving toward these creator-led environments. A brand may no longer purchase only a podcast placement or a YouTube integration. It may sponsor the creator across several surfaces and negotiate rights to reuse the resulting content in paid campaigns. That changes the asset being purchased.

The value can include the creator’s audience relationship, intellectual property, content, distribution reach, endorsement, likeness, and permission to repurpose the campaign. Dan sees trust as the element that connects those assets.

Host-read advertising remains especially important because the recommendation comes through a person the audience already knows.

The strongest integrations allow the creator to speak naturally, test the product, acknowledge limitations, and explain why it may be useful.

Rob and Dan share early examples from the podcasting market in which creators criticize parts of a sponsor’s offering during paid integrations. That apparent risk can make the rest of the endorsement more believable because the audience hears an honest response rather than polished marketing language.

The discussion also examines where an advertisement appears inside an episode.

Dan is sharply critical of post-roll advertising because much of the audience has already left by the time the ad plays. Rob and Dan also discuss pre-rolls, mid-rolls, dynamic insertion, programmatic advertising, and the effects of placing too many ads in a single episode.

Oxford Road has published PodLoad research comparing the number of advertising units placed within shows.

Dan argues that an impression in a program carrying 6 minutes of advertising per hour should not automatically be valued the same as one in a show carrying 20 minutes of advertising. Excessive ad load can weaken attention and reduce campaign performance.

Brand values and suitability add another layer.

Dan believes advertisers should understand the values they claim to support and make intentional decisions about the creators and environments they fund.

Dan also believes brands became overly reactive during the height of the brand-safety debate and then moved too far in the opposite direction.

The goal should be a durable position that considers business outcomes alongside genuine organizational values. Audience demographics matter, but the creator’s tone, worldview, conduct, and credibility can also affect whether the partnership makes sense.

The second half of the episode turns to the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting, known as AMP.

Dan convened AMP as a one-year industry task force focused on three core questions:

– What qualifies as a podcast?
– How should exposure be counted across audio and video?
– How should advertising results be attributed?

AMP includes representatives from platforms, advertisers, publishers, creators, agencies, and measurement companies. Its stated purpose is to develop voluntary cross-platform standards that make podcast inventory easier to compare, buy, sell, and measure.

One of the group’s most discussed recommendations is moving toward a 30-second play threshold.

Dan explains that he is less concerned with whether the correct threshold is exactly 30 seconds or 60 seconds. The larger problem is that different platforms use different definitions. That inconsistency prevents advertisers from confidently comparing performance across audio and video.

The 30-second recommendation reflects what AMP members believed had the greatest chance of broad adoption. A workable shared standard can move the market forward even when it does not represent every participant’s preferred method.

Dan compares the current landscape to islands that speak different languages. Each platform may have useful data, but the absence of a common language makes commerce harder. AMP is trying to provide a shared framework without requiring every platform to abandon its existing internal analytics.

The group is preparing the AMP Accords as a framework covering podcast classification, exposure, and advertising effectiveness. The official AMP site identifies Oxford Road as the organization that convened the process.

Rob and Dan then take on the most persistent question in podcasting: What is a podcast?

Two areas continue to create friction.

One is whether a podcast must be distributed through RSS.
The other is whether the medium must be primarily audio.

Dan believes RSS represents important principles, including open access and flexible distribution.

Dan does not believe RSS should be the only requirement determining whether a show qualifies as a podcast.

His practical test is whether the experience still works when the audience closes its eyes.

Video can enhance a podcast without disqualifying it. A program that requires constant visual attention will remain open to debate, but he argues that advertisers need enough consistency to conduct business.

Rob explains that RSS has increasingly become an industry-level, server-to-server distribution system. Many newer creators do not know where to find their RSS feed because hosting platforms now handle most submission and syndication work through dashboards and direct platform connections.

Audiences care even less about the technical delivery method. They call content a podcast based on how the experience looks and feels.

The conversation also covers Apple’s HLS video implementation. Rob supports the opportunity for high-quality streaming video but questions Apple’s use of a direct submission process rather than placing the HLS stream inside the open RSS feed. He believes alternative enclosures could enable the same video stream to reach more podcast apps without limiting it to a single platform.

Dan views HLS as broadly compatible with AMP’s goal of measuring real consumption across audio and video. He also recognizes that open distribution, platform control, creator ownership, and practical commercial adoption will continue pulling the market in different directions.

The episode closes with a look at what may happen to legacy media.

Dan does not expect established media companies to disappear quietly. Many still have capital, infrastructure, distribution, and the ability to acquire or support major personalities.

Dan expects some traditional media companies to adapt by functioning more like houses that provide resources to talent while allowing the personality to remain the visible brand.

Dan also expects renewed opportunity in local media, which could return through creator-led, community-focused models rather than traditional newspapers or broadcast stations.

Artificial intelligence will also become part of this future.

Dan sees value in personalized and AI-supported content, provided audiences can clearly understand when material is authentic, synthetic, or manipulated.

Rob argues that transparent labeling, human accountability, and audience awareness will become increasingly important as AI personalities and automated media gain adoption.

Episode 677 captures a media market in the middle of a structural change. Personalities are carrying audiences across platforms. Advertisers want creator trust while also demanding dependable measurement. Platforms want control over distribution, while creators want ownership and flexibility.

The companies that bring those interests together will help determine how creator media is bought, measured, and scaled.

Topics Covered in This Episode

– Why personalities are becoming media companies
– The CAO Summit and brand-to-brand learning
– Connecting advertisers directly with creators
– The purpose of the Indie PaC Awards
– How to define an independent creator
– Why independent shows can outperform larger networks
– Creator ownership and editorial control
– Brands shifting budget toward creator media
– Host-read advertising and audience trust
– Why honest creator criticism can improve an endorsement
– Pre-roll, mid-roll, and post-roll advertising
– Podcast ad load and campaign performance
– Brand safety, suitability, and values alignment
– Buying creators across several media platforms
– Licensing creator advertising content
– The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting
– The proposed 30-second podcast-play standard
– Measuring audio and video through a common framework
– Defining a podcast beyond RSS
– Why video does not automatically change the medium
– Apple HLS video and alternative RSS enclosures
– The IAB’s possible role in industry adoption
– Legacy media adaptation
– The future of local creator media
– AI content, personalization, and disclosure

Chapter Time Stamp Markers:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 677
00:19 How personality-led media is changing the market
03:10 Introducing Dan Granger of Oxford Road
04:00 Why in-person media gatherings matter again
06:14 How the CAO Summit began
07:31 Defining the Chief Audio Officer
09:19 Bringing advertisers and creators together
11:34 The Independent Podcast and Creator Awards
13:38 Deal Room and a new approach to podcast upfronts
14:21 What makes a creator truly independent?
16:06 Joe Rogan, ownership, and platform influence
17:42 Publishing activity and independent-creator criteria
18:20 Creators are taking control of the media world
20:26 Personality-driven media reaches every institution
22:12 Brands move more budget toward creator content
25:16 Trust as the core creator-media asset
27:00 Why host-read advertising still works
28:22 Product testing and honest creator endorsements
30:00 Ad placement, post-rolls, and wasted impressions
31:18 How excessive ad load damages performance
33:00 Rob’s early radio and podcast advertising experience
35:46 Remembering Todd Cochrane
36:46 What advertisers now value in creators
37:00 Buying a personality across multiple platforms
38:17 Licensing creator content for paid campaigns
39:18 Brand safety, values, and commercial outcomes
45:54 Introducing the AMP measurement project
47:37 The 30-second versus 60-second play debate
48:00 Why a shared measurement language matters
51:38 AMP’s one-year mission and planned conclusion
52:25 Why the industry still needs to define a podcast
54:26 RSS, audio, video, and open distribution
56:00 HLS video and cross-platform attribution
57:12 Apple APIs compared with RSS alternative enclosures
59:08 Is RSS still essential to podcasting?
1:00:00 Why consumers no longer think about RSS
1:01:30 Dan’s “works with your eyes closed” podcast test
1:03:37 Why advertisers need a practical definition
1:04:35 AMP’s position on podcasts without RSS
1:05:49 The RSS education gap among newer creators
1:07:43 Building standards that grow the entire market
1:09:22 The IAB’s role in measurement adoption
1:11:18 Will personalities replace legacy media brands?
1:12:27 The possible rebirth of local media
1:13:42 AI content, personalization, and labeling
1:16:00 AMP’s contribution to a more scalable market
1:17:35 Closing remarks

Guest Links: Dan Granger, Founder and CEO, Oxford Road

Oxford Road: https://oxfordroad.com
Dan Granger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dangranger
Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting: https://www.ampaccords.com
Oxford Road Thought Leadership: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership
Oxford Road ORBIT: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership/orbit
Indie PaC Awards Announcement: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership/this-weeks-influencer-introducing-the-inaugural-indie-pac-awards-tiktok-resumes-its-long-form-push-orbit-deems-niche-sports-vips-and-more

Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

AI Disclosure Note

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain mine. The discussion reflects the views expressed by my guest and me during the recorded conversation.

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