podcast monetization

Who Profits From Video? The Real Cost of Video Podcasting | #691

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

“Is video podcasting making creators more profitable, or simply making their content more valuable to YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and other platforms? Plus the brewing AI content vs Human content battle that is developing”

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest: Losh MoodaleyIn New Media Show #691, Host Rob Greenlee, Founder of TrustFactorLab.com, and Podcast Hall of Famer, welcomes guest Losh Moodaley, a podcast sponsorship and brand partnerships strategist. 

They together explore the economics of video podcasting, creator monetization, platform control, audience ownership, and the future of human-centered media.

Losh brings more than 15 years of commercial experience across entertainment, retail, sports, and brand partnerships. Her article, The Price of Visibility: The Hidden Economics of Podcast Video, raises an important question for independent creators: when does investing in video actually make business sense?

What starts as a discussion about podcast profitability expands into a larger conversation about the changing definition of podcasting, direct sponsorships, live commerce, AI-generated media, human creativity, and audience trust.

Who Really Profits From Video Podcasting?

Video has become a major driver of podcast discovery. YouTube is attracting podcast audiences, Spotify and Apple are expanding their video capabilities, and creators are being encouraged to produce more visual content.

But financial tension underlies that growth.

Adding video often means additional equipment, production time, editing, graphics, lighting, and publishing work. Those costs do not automatically produce equivalent revenue.

Losh explains why creators should evaluate video as a business investment rather than simply follow platform expectations.

The question becomes: Are you building a more profitable creator business, or helping platforms generate additional viewing time?

The Video Threshold: When Does Video Pay for Itself?

Losh introduces her Video Threshold framework, which identifies the point where additional video production costs are justified by the revenue and business value created.

She discusses research suggesting that producing a video podcast can cost substantially more than an audio-only show, with one industry analysis finding production costs approximately 3.6 times higher.

But the economics vary considerably depending on how a creator earns revenue.

  • A podcast dependent on CPM-based advertising may need a very large audience to support professional video production.
  • A smaller show generating consulting clients, direct sponsorships, memberships, or product sales may justify video much sooner.

Video can be valuable without paying for itself through advertising alone.

Video as a Customer Acquisition Strategy

One of the most useful distinctions in the conversation is looking at video as marketing and customer acquisition rather than simply another content format.

A YouTube appearance, short clip, or full video episode might introduce someone to a creator for the first time.

But what happens afterward?

Does the viewer become a subscriber, customer, community member, consulting client, or someone who develops a meaningful relationship with the creator?

Rob and Losh discuss why discovery numbers alone cannot answer those questions.

The business value may come from the relationship that develops after someone finds the content.

Own Your Audience Instead of Renting It

The conversation turns toward the growing power of distribution platforms.

YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and other services provide access to enormous audiences, but their business priorities do not always align with those of independent creators.

Platforms optimize for engagement, viewing time, subscriptions, and their own revenue models.

Creators need to think differently: build relationships and assets they can control.

Rob and Losh discuss newsletters, websites, memberships, subscriptions, communities, and direct customer relationships as ways to reduce platform dependence.

They also emphasize owning intellectual property and building a business that doesn’t depend entirely on one distribution company.

Beyond CPMs: Sponsorships, Products, and Community

Traditional podcast advertising remains important, but Losh sees significant opportunity beyond standard host-read advertising and programmatic CPM revenue.

The discussion explores direct brand partnerships, integrated sponsorship experiences, premium offerings, consulting, live events, and audience-supported businesses.

Instead of simply inserting more ads into episodes, creators may develop experiences that connect sponsors and audiences more naturally.

An independent creator with a smaller but highly engaged community may generate substantial business value without competing for millions of downloads.

Audience trust and relevance can become more important than raw scale.

When Video, Community, and Commerce Come Together

The episode moves into live video commerce and a possible future for creator-led media businesses.

Rob Greenlee shares his experience and observations of the fast-growing platform Whatnot, where creators combine live video, merchandise, auctions, audience interaction, and collaborative community events.

That model suggests opportunities for podcasts and creator brands to extend beyond advertising into products, retail, live experiences, and direct transactions.

Losh sees growing potential in combining video, commerce, and community.

The future creator business may not be defined by a single show or distribution platform, but by the relationships and opportunities built around its audience.

Audio and Video Are Different Experiences

Rob brings his experience producing New Media Show in both audio and video for many years into the discussion.

As Apple Podcasts and other platforms adopt HLS streaming and integrated audio-video experiences, creators face new decisions about how to produce their content.

Should the audio and video versions always be identical?

  • Can a visually driven program deliver the same value when someone turns off the screen?

  • Do creators need separate edits to produce the strongest experience in each format?

Rob argues that creators should retain flexibility to build content around the strengths of the medium rather than be forced into one production model.

What Is a Podcast Now?

The conversation also tackles the continuing identity debate around podcasting.

Traditional podcasting was built around open RSS distribution, but audiences increasingly identify long-form conversations on YouTube and even streaming services such as Netflix as podcasts.

Rob Greenlee argues that audience behavior and platform terminology are increasingly shaping what people understand a podcast to be.

Losh and Rob discuss whether the industry can establish common definitions and meaningful measurements as video, streaming, downloads, and social media consumption converge.

Measuring Attention, Outcomes, and Trust

Views, downloads, listening time, impressions, conversions, and customer value each provide a different piece of the picture.

Rob and Losh explore whether the future of creator measurement should place greater emphasis on audience attention, financial outcomes, and return on investment.

They also consider whether AI might eventually help connect fragmented measurement systems and reveal deeper signals about the value of audience relationships.

The discussion returns repeatedly to trust as an important element of creator success, particularly when media is used to build professional authority, relationships, and business opportunities.

AI Media and the Future Human Creator

The second half of the conversation expands into the future of AI-generated and AI-enhanced media.

Rob Greenlee describes three developing categories:

  1. Fully human-created content.
  2. Human-created content enhanced through AI tools.
  3. Fully AI-generated content.

Losh emphasizes the continuing value of human connection, particularly in conversational media where audiences develop relationships with real people.

The conversation then moves into synthetic characters, virtual personalities, immersive storytelling, digital worlds, and the potential for AI-created intellectual property to become part of real-world entertainment and commerce.

As production capabilities expand, imagination, creativity, judgment, responsibility, and ownership may become increasingly important.

Build a Business That Makes Sense for You

Losh closes with practical advice for creators. Do not invest in video simply because platforms encourage it. Consider why you are creating, who your audience is, what value you provide, and how the content supports your goals.

A podcast created as a hobby has different requirements from one designed to generate business revenue.

For creators building a business, consistency, a clear niche, audience trust, sustainable costs, and direct relationships remain essential.

Rob Greenlee also notes that creators should test whether their ideas and workflows are sustainable before making major investments in production and business infrastructure.

The central takeaway:

Video can grow your audience, but audience growth alone does not guarantee a sustainable business. Build for your audience and your own economic goals, not simply the objectives of the platforms carrying your content.

Key topics:

– The real economics of video podcasting
– Why video production can increase costs faster than revenue
– Losh Moodaley’s Video Threshold framework
– Video as customer acquisition and marketing
– Platform incentives versus creator profitability
– Owning audience relationships and intellectual property
– Direct sponsorships and alternatives to CPM advertising
– Community, memberships, products, and live experiences
– Whatnot, live shopping, and creator-led commerce
– Audio versus video production workflows
– HLS streaming and the future of podcast distribution
– YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Netflix
– The changing definition of podcasting
– Attention, ROI, and creator business measurement
– Human trust in AI-enhanced and synthetic media
– Building sustainable creator businesses

Chapter timestamps:

  • 00:00 Who profits from video podcasting?
  • 02:00 Meet Losh Moodaley
  • 06:00 The pressure to move from audio to video
  • 07:00 Is video becoming the price of discoverability?
  • 10:00 Podcasts move into the living room
  • 14:00 The rising production costs of video
  • 16:00 Video as a customer acquisition investment
  • 18:00 Building revenue beyond traditional advertising
  • 20:00 Why creators need to own their audiences
  • 25:00 Platform economics versus creator economics
  • 28:00 HLS streaming and a video-first future
  • 32:00 Direct sponsorships and authentic brand integration
  • 36:00 Audience support, memberships, and premium content
  • 39:00 Live commerce and the future of creator retail
  • 43:00 Why audio and video need different creative approaches
  • 47:00 Podcasting’s identity and measurement challenges
  • 51:00 Attention, return on investment, and AI measurement
  • 54:00 The human trust layer and AI agents
  • 56:00 Human-created, AI-enhanced, and synthetic content
  • 60:00 Virtual characters, intellectual property, and creativity
  • 65:00 Limitless AI production and creative responsibility
  • 70:00 Build the podcast around your business goals
  • 75:00 Final advice for independent creators
  • 77:00 Where to connect with Losh Moodaley

Chapter markers are based on the recording transcript and should be verified against the final edited video.

Guest: Losh Moodaley

Losh Moodaley is a podcast sponsorship and brand partnerships strategist with 15+ years of experience across entertainment, retail, sports, and commercial partnerships.

Her work focuses on helping independent podcasts develop sustainable sponsorship revenue, direct brand relationships, and business models that reflect the value of their audiences.

Connect with Losh:

Host: Rob Greenlee

Rob Greenlee is the host of New Media Show, founder of Trust Factor Lab, a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, and Chair of the Podcast Hall of Fame.

AI disclosure

AI tools helped organize and draft these show notes from the original episode transcript. The conversation features human participants. Editorial review and final publishing decisions remain with Rob Greenlee.

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How AI Is Changing the Creator Workflow | Descript CEO Laura Burkhauser #690

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WATCH OR LISTEN · EPISODE 690

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Show notes

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest: Laura Burkhauser, CEO, Descript.com In New Media Show #690, Host Rob Greenlee, Podcast Hall of Famer and Founder of TrustFactorLab.com, joins Laura Burkhauser, CEO of Descript (https://www.descript.com), to explore how AI is changing the way creators edit, produce, and share their work.

As AI takes on more production tasks, what becomes more valuable about the human creator? Laura and I discuss creative direction, storytelling, authenticity, audience trust, and the role of tools such as Descript’s Underlord. The conversation also looks beyond editing to the business of creating media and the pressure to show up across more platforms.

From Editing to Creative Direction

We start with a question many creators are facing: is editing becoming more like directing?

Laura distinguishes between people whose craft is editing and people whose craft is the story they want to tell. Both can benefit from AI, but they may want very different levels of control.

For an editor, the small decisions are part of the art.

For a storyteller, editing may be the obstacle between recording an idea and sharing it with an audience.  We discuss why a clear creative vision still matters.

Asking AI to edit a podcast can produce a usable result, but communicating a specific perspective, reviewing its choices, and refining the work are what help a creator make something distinctive.

Let AI Handle the Friction

Laura’s approach to AI starts with understanding what creators actually want help doing.

Creators want relief from repetitive production work while keeping their voice, vision, and story. Laura describes Descript’s philosophy as “struggle with your art, not with your tools.”

That leads to a discussion about the promises AI companies make and the trust they can lose when those promises overlook how creative work happens.

Rob Greenlee shares his experience moving from assembling radio shows by hand to using Descript in my current workflow. We explore how creators can choose the right balance of manual editing and AI assistance for the content they want to make.

Authenticity and the Choices Behind an Edit

Does editing make a conversation less authentic? Laura argues that thoughtful editing can bring its meaning into sharper focus.

A reaction shot or a well-timed close-up can help an audience understand the emotion in a conversation. The question is whether an edit serves what happened between the people involved.

We also talk about the difference between being authentic and performing authenticity online. Showing up as yourself can build connection, but it can also leave creators exposed to criticism.

Laura explains why a recognizable human presence and community engagement matter to her.

Rob connects that discussion to my work with Trust Factor Lab and the challenge of building trust as more synthetic media enters the mix is the growing opportunity.

Start Creating Before Expecting a Business

Laura was a Descript customer before she joined the company. Editing a podcast with a friend showed her she could put her own humor and perspective into the world without mastering a complicated production tool.

Her practical advice is to begin by recording something.

The opportunity is to talk about a problem you understand, a subject you care about, or an issue you can explore with another person. Then edit it, share it, and keep going long enough to learn from the experience.

We discuss how the expectation of immediate revenue can get in the way of the authentic creator process.

Creating media can support a business even when the media itself is not the product. For coaches, consultants, founders, and other professionals, a video or podcast can show their expertise and help start a relationship that leads to work.

Community, Revenue, and Reaching the Right People

Our business discussion moves into audience support, Patreon, and sponsorship opportunities.  

Laura points to community support as one possible path for working creators. We also explore why a business serving a specific audience may be a better sponsorship prospect than a broad advertising buyer.

Local businesses and companies serving a particular interest give us examples to consider.

The discussion focuses on understanding your audience, what they care about, and which relationships could create value.

We also look at why more companies are building their own media operations and why creators feel pressure to produce both long-form conversations and short clips.

Algorithms and What Comes Next for Descript

Laura describes being intentional about her own media consumption, including turning off YouTube recommendations. I share how I use both subscriptions and algorithmic discovery.

A broader conversation starts about personalization.

Laura argues that the goals given to an algorithm matter. A system rewarded for attention does not automatically distinguish between an experience that helps someone and one that keeps them engaged through anger or distrust.

We close with Laura’s BIG Direction for Descript:

Helping creators across more of their content workflow, including identifying the subjects they want to own, building a library of useful material, publishing across platforms, and learning from what works. Laura describes that as a direction for future development as creators manage growing demands on their time.

Key takeaways:

AI can make production easier, but your perspective still gives people a reason to listen. Use the tools to reduce friction, make deliberate creative choices, and invest in the relationships that give your work lasting value.

Key topics

– AI editing, Underlord, and the changing creator workflow
– The difference between editing as a craft and editing as a production task
– Creative direction, specific prompts, and human judgment
– Reducing repetitive work while preserving a creator’s voice
– Authenticity, thoughtful editing, and audience trust
– Getting started without expecting immediate monetization
– Using media to support a coaching, consulting, or founder-led business
– Community support, Patreon, and targeted sponsorships
– YouTube discovery, subscriptions, and personalization
– Descript’s direction beyond editing into broader content workflows

Chapter timestamps

– 00:00 AI workflows and the value of the human creator
– 02:00 Meet Descript CEO Laura Burkhauser
– 03:00 Is editing becoming directing?
– 05:00 When storytelling is the creator’s main craft
– 07:00 Creative vision and directing AI
– 10:00 Standing out through your voice and perspective
– 12:00 AI promises, creator trust, and tool friction
– 14:00 From manual production to AI-assisted editing
– 16:00 Authenticity and the role of a good editor
– 18:00 What does it mean to be authentic online?
– 21:00 Technology, human needs, and useful AI
– 24:00 Trust Factor Lab and finding a balance with AI
– 26:00 Laura’s experience as a Descript customer
– 28:00 Record, edit, share, and build confidence
– 30:00 Does pressure to monetize hold creators back?
– 32:00 Content as a way to grow a business
– 35:00 Community support and creator revenue
– 36:00 Local businesses and targeted sponsorships
– 39:00 YouTube recommendations and intentional viewing
– 42:00 Personalization, engagement, and human outcomes
– 46:00 What comes next for Descript
– 48:00 Closing thoughts

Guest Laura Burkhauser

Laura Burkhauser is CEO of Descript. In this conversation, she shares her perspective as a technology leader, a humanist, and a former Descript customer who discovered the creative possibilities of editing her own podcast.

– Descript: https://www.descript.com
– Descript Underlord: https://www.descript.com/underlord
– Laura Burkhauser on the Descript blog: https://www.descript.com/blog/author/laura-burkhauser

Host Rob Greenlee

Rob Greenlee is the founder/builder of Trust Factor Lab (https://TrustFactorLab.com), host of New Media Show, and a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair. His work connects podcasting, video, creator platforms, audience trust, and the media business.

– New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
– New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
– Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com/
– Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
– Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com
– Adore Network Audio: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-audio
– Adore Network Video: https://www.adorenetwork.com/show/new-media-show-video
– Apple Podcasts Audio: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
– Apple Podcasts Video: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-video/id392545647

AI disclosure

AI tools helped organize and draft these show notes from the completed Episode #690 transcript. Rob Greenlee and guest retain all editorial responsibility. The New Media Show is human-hosted with human guests. AI is used for light editing of the actual audio and video media files.

Hidden Revenue: What Media Publishers Are Leaving Behind | Sean Howard, Flightpath #686

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

Podcast media creator publishers may already have more revenue opportunity than they realize. The challenge is not always finding more listeners. It can be understanding what inventory is actually available to sell, what to sell, whether campaigns will deliver, and where revenue is being lost.

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest: Sean Howard, CEO and co-founder of Flightpath.fmIn this episode #686 of the New Media Show, Rob Greenlee talks with Sean Howard, CEO and co-founder of Flightpath.fm, about the growing complexity behind new media podcast advertising and why better forecasting, campaign management, publisher data, and revenue optimization are becoming more important.

Sean explains how Flightpath grew out of a problem he experienced from both sides of the business. As an ad buyer, he found that publishers often did not know how much inventory they really had available. As a publisher, he saw the same problem from the other side: uncertainty about whether sold campaigns would actually deliver. Flightpath was built to bring those pieces together through traffic management, prediction, pacing, and cross-platform revenue visibility.

The conversation also gets into dynamic ad insertion and the value of the podcast back catalog. Sean argues that publishers relying too heavily on baked-in ads may be leaving significant revenue on the table because listeners keep consuming older episodes long after release.

Rob and Sean also discuss a larger issue facing content creator publishers today: platform dependence.

As podcast companies expand across multiple hosting platforms, YouTube, Spotify, video, HLS, and other distribution systems, publishers need better access to their own data and a clearer understanding of the business risk that comes with relying too heavily on any one platform.

The bigger question is whether the next stage of media and podcast revenue growth may come not only from finding more audience, but from better understanding and monetizing the audience publishers already have.

Discussion Highlights
– Hidden revenue in existing podcast inventory
– Why forecasting and campaign delivery remain difficult
– Dynamic ad insertion and back-catalog monetization
– Frequency capping, pacing, and ad performance
– Publisher ownership and access to data
– Platform risk and using multiple hosting platforms
– YouTube, Spotify, HLS, and video monetization
– AI and revenue optimization
– Flightpath’s role as a publisher intelligence and traffic management layer
– Why better data can help sales and operations make better decisions

Key Topic Timestamps:
00:00 Hidden revenue opportunities publishers may already have
01:00 Sean Howard and what Flightpath does
03:00 Why Flightpath was built around forecasting and campaign delivery
05:00 Fragmented platforms and the growing complexity of monetization
07:30 HLS, open standards, and the return of video podcasting
11:00 Audio and video advertising collide
12:30 Using publisher data to identify campaign and platform problems
15:00 Why publishers need access to their own data
17:00 Dynamic ad insertion and the untapped value of the back catalog
19:00 Spotify, YouTube, and changing control over ad inventory
21:00 Choosing a hosting platform is becoming a business risk decision
23:00 Why publishers may need to work across multiple platforms
26:00 Measuring hosting platform performance and revenue impact
27:30 Publisher autonomy and Flightpath’s platform strategy review
31:00 Forecasting, pacing, and Flightpath’s Revenue Optimizer
35:30 Where AI fits into forecasting and sales recommendations
38:00 Podcast platforms evolving into intelligence and decision systems
39:00 Using publisher data with AI and LLMs
43:00 Advertising, subscriptions, Spotify, and YouTube
44:00 Apple video, Spotify, and the HLS opportunity
46:00 Podcasting becomes a more professional media business
48:00 Why publishers need an independent intelligence layer
50:00 Who Flightpath is built for
53:00 Flightpath onboarding and supported platform integrations
55:00 Closing thoughts and where to learn more

Guest
Sean Howard
CEO and Co-Founder, Flightpath
https://flightpath.fm
https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanhoward

Host
Rob Greenlee

Listen and Watch

AI Disclosure

AI tools helped organize and edit this episode and create the above show notes from the completed Episode #686 transcript. The conversation, perspectives, editorial direction, and final editing were performed, and responsibility for the episode remains human-led. The New Media Show is human-hosted.

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Trust, AI and the Future of Podcast Advertising | Mike Kadin, RedCircle #683

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest Mike Kadin, CEO/co-founder of RedCircle.comPodcasting has one advantage that much of digital media struggles to maintain: trust.

In Episode #683 of the New Media Show, Rob Greenlee talks with Mike Kadin, CEO and co-founder of RedCircle.  What does that trust mean for podcast advertising as AI, video, HLS, YouTube, Spotify, and changing audience behavior reshape the business?

Long-form shows create a different relationship between creators and audiences than short-form social content. That relationship has always been one of the reasons host-read podcast advertising can work so well.

But what happens when AI can recreate the host’s voice?

Mike makes an important distinction. The value of a host-read ad is not simply hearing a familiar voice. It comes from the host’s language, personality, experience, humor, and actual judgment about the product. RedCircle does not use AI-generated versions of creators to perform host-read advertising.

Mike believes cloning the host’s voice without the actual human endorsement could undermine the very trust that makes the advertising valuable.

Authentic Host Reads Still Matter

Rob and Mike talk about the difference between reading advertising copy and genuinely recommending something a creator has used.

RedCircle has seen similar shows, with similar audience sizes, run by the same advertiser and using the same talking points, produce very different results. One of the biggest differences can be the quality and believability of the host read.

That also puts responsibility on creators to work with products they can credibly talk about.

Mike explains that RedCircle will sometimes hear from a creator who tried a sponsor’s product and did not like it.

Rather than force an endorsement, the company can take that feedback back to the advertiser and cancel the spot. That kind of process helps protect the relationship between the creator and audience.

Using AI to Find Better Brand Matches

Mike also talks about a newer RedCircle capability called Show IQ.

Over the years of running campaigns, RedCircle has accumulated information on its creators’ interests and brand affinities, as well as historical campaign performance. Show IQ uses that information to help identify creators who may be a natural fit for a particular advertiser.

This is an example of AI being used behind the scenes to improve the match rather than replacing the human doing the endorsement. The goal is to put advertisers with creators who can actually speak credibly about their products.

Spotify, YouTube and Control of Podcast Monetization

The conversation shifts to the growing influence of large consumption platforms. Spotify is experimenting with ways for listeners to move past advertising more easily. YouTube has already offered similar jump-ahead behavior around portions of videos that viewers commonly skip.

Mike does not see this as some unexpected attack on podcasting. Spotify and YouTube have built massive distribution platforms and naturally want to control more of the economics that happen inside them.

For creators, diversification becomes increasingly important.

A creator can use YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other platforms for distribution, but should also keep building direct relationships through websites, newsletters, subscriptions, and communities. No single distribution platform can be expected to always put the creator’s interests first.

RedCircle Is Moving Into Video

RedCircle has also started expanding beyond its traditional audio focus. Creators can now upload video through RedCircle and send it to YouTube, an expansion of its earlier audio-to-YouTube tools.

Mike says YouTube was the obvious first priority because that is where the largest existing video audience is today. RedCircle is also watching Spotify video, Apple Podcasts video, and HLS as podcasting becomes increasingly multi-format. The advertising systems will eventually need to evolve along with the content.

HLS Creates New Advertising Questions

A significant part of the conversation focuses on HLS and Apple’s new video-podcast approach in this episode.

Podcast advertising has traditionally been built around audio downloads. The video introduces a much more complex environment.

An Apple Podcasts episode may still automatically download its audio before the listener ever presses play.

If that listener later watches the video version, the advertising decision may already have been made. That makes traditional real-time programmatic video advertising harder to apply to podcast video.

For now, audio advertising may become a common advertising format, whether someone is listening or watching. That works technically, but it is not necessarily the best video experience.

Rob and Mike discuss the need for a new type of podcast video advertising that works whether someone hears the ad, watches it, or moves between both experiences.

Audio and Video Are Converging, But Not Cleanly

Rob raises a question he is dealing with directly on the New Media Show. Should a show have one combined audio-video experience, or should creators continue producing separate audio versions?

The New Media Show has distributed separate audio and video feeds for years. HLS makes it easier to move between listening and viewing, but that convergence can also lead to compromises.

Great video production does not automatically guarantee the best audio experience. The reverse is also true. Mike agrees there is a reasonable argument for preserving more flexibility between the two formats.

Measurement Is Getting Harder

Podcast measurement was already complicated.

Now creators may have traditional podcast downloads, Spotify streams, YouTube views, Apple video consumption, social views, and various advertising impressions.

Those numbers do not all mean the same thing. That creates an operational problem for creators trying to sell advertising and for brands trying to understand what they purchased. Mike believes technology needs to simplify this increasingly fragmented environment.

Mike compares it to the music industry, where tools were developed to distribute music and aggregate results across many different services. Creator media increasingly needs the same kind of cross-platform infrastructure.

What Is a Podcast Now? The episode also returns to a question the New Media Show has discussed for years.

What exactly is a podcast? Mike admits he has two answers.

As a longtime software engineer and RSS believer,  Mike still thinks of a podcast as episodic media distributed through RSS.

As the CEO of a podcast technology and advertising company, he sees younger people entering the business who do not know what RSS is and think of a podcast as the kind of long-form conversational content they see on YouTube.

At some point, audience behavior begins defining the medium.

Rob and Mike also discuss industry efforts such as the AMP work around definitions and measurement.

Mike supports efforts to build standards but says they only become truly meaningful if the major platforms where people actually consume podcasts implement them.

Where Podcasting Goes Next

Mike believes the industry has to follow audience behavior. Creators are becoming multi-channel because audiences already are.

Audio, video, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, RSS apps, and social platforms are increasingly parts of the same creator-media business. The opportunity is to build better tools that allow creators to distribute, monetize, and measure it all without having to manage the complexity themselves.

HLS is one part of that transition.

The larger change is podcasting becoming a much broader medium for audio and video creators while trying to preserve the trust that made it valuable in the first place.

Discussion Highlights:

– Why long-form podcasting creates deeper audience trust
– Why authentic host reads still perform
– AI-generated advertising and creator voice cloning
– Why RedCircle does not use synthetic host reads
– RedCircle Show IQ and better creator-brand matching
– Dynamic versus baked-in podcast advertising
– Spotify and YouTube gaining more monetization control
– Why creators need direct audience relationships
– RedCircle’s move into video
– Why YouTube was its first video priority
– HLS and podcast video advertising
– Audio versus video ad creative
– Separate audio and video podcast experiences
– Cross-platform measurement problems
– Alternate enclosures and adoption
– What defines a podcast now
– The need for meaningful industry standards
– The future of multi-channel podcast monetization

Chapter Timestamp Markers

00:00 Podcasting, trust and long-form media
01:00 Introducing Mike Kadin of RedCircle
02:00 Why trust matters in podcast advertising
03:20 AI-generated ads and audience trust
06:10 Why RedCircle avoids cloned host reads
09:00 Authentic creator endorsements
11:00 Why some host reads outperform others
12:20 RedCircle Show IQ
14:00 The future of host-read advertising
15:30 Dynamic versus baked-in ads
17:20 Spotify and ad skipping
21:00 YouTube and platform control
22:20 Creators need direct audience relationships
24:00 RedCircle moves further into video
26:30 HLS and podcast video advertising
31:00 Opportunities for video host-read advertising
33:00 Ads that work in audio and video
36:30 Separate audio and video feeds
40:00 The fragmented consumption experience
42:00 Podcast measurement gets more complicated
44:30 HLS and alternate enclosures
47:20 What is a podcast now?
52:00 Standards and the major platforms
54:00 Measuring advertising by performance
56:00 The multi-channel future of podcasting
58:00 Closing thoughts

Mike Kadin Guest Links

RedCircle: https://redcircle.com

Host and Show Links

New Media Show
https://newmediashow.com

New Media Show on YouTube
https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow

Rob Greenlee
https://robgreenlee.com

Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee

Podcast Hall of Fame
https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure

AI tools were used to assist with organizing and editing to remove filler words; this episode description was created from the completed full transcript of episode #683. The recorded conversation, human performances, perspectives, editorial direction, and final responsibility for the episode remain with Rob Greenlee and Mike Kadin. The New Media Show is human-hosted.

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Blubrry’s Next Chapter | Barry Kantz, CEO/CFO #678

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest Barry Kantz, CEO/CFO of Blubrry PodcastingIn Episode 678 of the New Media Show, host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Barry Kantz, CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting, for a candid conversation about Blubrry’s leadership transition, the legacy of (RIP) former CEO Todd Cochrane, independent podcasting, video, artificial intelligence, monetization, measurement, human support, and the changing podcast-hosting market.

For more than 20 years, Blubrry and its parent company, RawVoice, have helped build and support the open podcast ecosystem. The sudden passing of Blubrry founder and longtime New Media Show co-host Todd Cochrane forced the company, its team, and Todd’s family to navigate an unexpected personal and business transition.

Barry explains how Blubrry responded, how leadership responsibilities shifted, and how his management approach differs from Todd’s hard-charging entrepreneurial style. Barry is bringing a more data-driven and systems-focused approach while trusting Blubrry’s experienced remote team to carry the company forward.

The conversation also examines how podcasting itself is changing.

Audio remains central to the medium, but video has become part of how audiences define and experience podcasts. Rob and Barry discuss YouTube discovery, the overlap between watching and listening, short-form clips, RSS distribution, Apple’s HLS video support, alternative enclosures, Podcasting 2.0, and Blubrry’s Vid2Pod tool for turning YouTube videos into audio podcast episodes.

Barry also shares an update on Blubrry’s HLS video development and discusses the company’s new lower-priced starter plan introduced around the time of the recording.

Artificial intelligence is another major part of Blubrry’s next chapter.

Barry explains how he uses Claude as a daily assistant for analytics, automation, research, and company operations.

Barry sees AI as a way to make podcast creation and management easier, especially for creators who may not have extensive technical experience.

At the same time, Blubrry’s larger goal is to use technology to support human expression rather than replace the human connection that gives podcasting its value.

Rob and Barry discuss low-effort AI-generated content, synthetic media, voice cloning, the limitations of automated clipping tools, and the growing need to distinguish human-hosted shows from fully automated productions.

The discussion then moves into monetization and the opportunities still available to independent creators.

Barry argues that smaller shows can create meaningful business value when they serve a clearly defined audience and develop strong relationships with listeners. Creators do not necessarily need millions of downloads. A focused show with several hundred deeply engaged listeners can provide valuable access to a professional, geographic, or consumer community.

Barry also reflects on Blubrry’s early work with host-read advertising and Todd Cochrane’s long-running sponsorship relationship with GoDaddy as examples of how trust, consistency, niche relevance, and audience connection can create durable advertiser value.

Rob and Barry also examine the challenge of measuring audio and video under a common standard.

HLS video, progressive audio downloads, platform-controlled playback, and various delivery methods complicate the determination of what should count as a verified play. The discussion explores why common measurement matters to advertisers and why the industry may need different technical approaches for audio and video consumption.

The episode closes with a broader look at the increasingly competitive podcast-hosting market.

Hosting, storage, and delivery have become commodities. The competitive difference now comes from the tools, services, support, analytics, workflows, distribution options, and human expertise built around the infrastructure.

For Blubrry, that includes PowerPress, WordPress integration, video support, Vid2Pod, Podcasting 2.0 features, AI-assisted workflows, monetization options, analytics, and access to experienced human support.

Both reflect on the legacy Todd Cochrane helped create and provide a detailed look at how Blubrry plans to move forward in a media environment shaped by audio, video, AI, open distribution, creator ownership, and changing audience expectations.

Key Discussion Topics:

– Blubrry’s transition following Todd Cochrane’s passing
– Barry Kantz’s leadership and management approach
– How the Blubrry team responded to sudden change
– Todd’s influence on podcasting and the open ecosystem
– The evolving definition of a podcast
– Audience movement between watching and listening
– YouTube discovery and short-form video
– Blubrry’s Vid2Pod technology
– Apple HLS video support
– RSS, alternative enclosures, and Podcasting 2.0
– Blubrry’s lower-priced starter plan
– AI-assisted podcast production and operations
– Human-hosted media versus automated content
– Voice cloning, authenticity, and audience trust
– Monetization for independent and niche creators
– Host-read advertising and direct sponsorships
– Measuring audio and video consumption
– Podcast hosting as a commodity
– PowerPress and the continuing role of WordPress
– Human customer support as a competitive advantage
– The future of independent podcasting

Chapter Time Stamps:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 678
00:44 Blubrry’s role in the open podcast ecosystem
02:03 Introducing Barry Kantz, CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting
03:31 The sudden loss of former co-founder/CEO of Blubrry, Todd Cochrane
05:22 How the Blubrry team responded
06:29 Barry’s leadership style compared with Todd’s
08:17 Bringing data and operational systems into the company
09:57 How Todd might view today’s podcast market
11:11 Video becomes part of podcasting
13:20 Blubrry’s Vid2Pod product
14:46 Barry’s transition from CFO to CEO
18:14 The opportunity for independent creators
20:00 Who now defines what a podcast is?
21:07 Audiences move between watching and listening
23:24 YouTube discovery and the importance of Shorts
24:55 The limitations of AI-generated clips
26:20 Blubrry’s Apple HLS video rollout
28:12 Blubrry introduces a lower-priced starter plan
29:08 Alternative enclosures and Podcasting 2.0
30:34 Barry’s use of Claude as an AI assistant
32:02 Supporting human creators while limiting AI slop
33:20 Voice cloning and the challenge of replicating humanity
36:18 Blubrry’s philosophy on podcast monetization
37:30 How niche shows can attract direct sponsors
39:27 Managing expectations for new podcasters
43:16 Measuring HLS video and audio downloads
46:45 New competition in podcast hosting
47:36 Why hosting has become a commodity
50:45 Product focus, acquisitions, and platform complexity
52:01 WordPress, PowerPress, and AI-assisted websites
55:00 Blubrry’s commitment to human customer support
57:31 Closing thoughts on Blubrry’s future

About the Guest:

Barry Kantz is CEO and CFO of Blubrry Podcasting and one of the original founders of its parent company, RawVoice.

Barry has produced podcasts since 2005 and has worked with Blubrry throughout its more than 20-year history. His responsibilities have included company finance, legal affairs, human resources, analytics, operations, and business leadership.

Following the passing of Blubrry founder Todd Cochrane, Barry stepped into the company’s primary leadership role. He is now guiding Blubrry through its next chapter as podcasting expands across audio, video, artificial intelligence, open RSS distribution, WordPress, and creator-led media.

Blubrry Podcasting
https://blubrry.com

Blubrry Leadership and Company Information
https://blubrry.com/about

Barry Kantz on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kantzb

Blubrry Podcast Insider
https://blubrry.com/podcast-insider

About the Host:

Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, Chair of the Podcast Hall of Fame, and a longtime new-media executive, creator, strategist, and industry leader. He is the co-founder and current host of The New Media Show and the founder of Trust Factor Lab. Rob has worked across podcasting, radio, digital media, audio, video, creator platforms, partnerships, distribution, monetization, and emerging AI-assisted media for more than 26 years.

His previous leadership roles include Microsoft, PodcastOne, Spreaker, and Libsyn, where he helped shape the growth of podcasting, distribution platforms, creator partnerships, and digital audio.

Through The New Media Show, Rob explores how podcasting fits inside the larger new-media ecosystem, including video, livestreaming, artificial intelligence, platforms, audience ownership, intellectual property, advertising, trust, and sustainable creator businesses.

New Media Show
https://newmediashow.com

The New Media Show on YouTube
https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow

New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649

Rob Greenlee
https://robgreenlee.com

Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee

Rob Greenlee on YouTube
https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee

Podcast Hall of Fame
https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure:

AI tools were used to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the completed episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain with Rob Greenlee. This description reflects the substance of the recorded conversation between Barry Kantz and Rob Greenlee.

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How Brands Buy Creator Media | Dan Granger, Oxford Road #677

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest Dan Granger, CEO of Oxford RoadIn Episode 677 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Dan Granger, founder and CEO of Oxford Road, for a detailed conversation about how personality-led media is changing what brands buy, how audiences are measured, and what the podcast industry must do to support its next stage of growth.

Audiences increasingly follow people rather than traditional media channels.

A trusted personality can carry an audience across podcasts, YouTube, livestreams, newsletters, social platforms, communities, events, and direct business relationships.

Advertisers, however, still tend to purchase and measure those formats as separate media channels.

That disconnect is becoming one of the largest challenges facing creator media. A creator may record a single conversation and distribute it across multiple platforms, yet each platform reports exposure differently. Advertisers are then left trying to compare downloads, streams, video views, watch time, impressions, attribution data, and host-read performance without a consistent standard.

Dan has spent his career connecting advertisers with personality-driven media. Oxford Road now describes its work as building performance systems across audio, video, creator, and programmatic media, with Dan serving as the company’s CEO.

The conversation begins with Oxford Road’s growing investment in bringing brands, creators, platforms, and media leaders together in person.

Dan explains how the company’s CAO Summit developed from the idea of a “Chief Audio Officer,” the person inside a brand responsible for making audio advertising work. That responsibility may belong to a founder, marketing leader, media buyer, or growth executive rather than someone with a formal audio title.

The CAO Summit was designed as a peer-learning environment where advertisers could speak openly with other advertisers about measurement, attribution, creative performance, and the practical problems preventing brands from spending more in podcasts and creator media. Oxford Road continues to position the CAO Summit as a meeting point for the marketers, platforms, and creators shaping what it calls “Podcast+” media. 

They also discuss the Independent Podcast and Creator Awards, also known as the Indie PaC Awards. The program was created to recognize independently owned creators and shows at a time when consolidation continues across podcasting and digital media.

Dan argues that independent creators remain central to the value of podcasting.

Creators who maintain closer relationships with their audiences, retain more editorial control, and deliver strong results for advertisers. Oxford Road’s own published ORBIT rankings show that independent shows account for a large share of its strongest-performing podcast inventory. 

Defining an independent creator is difficult, though.

A creator may own the intellectual property while accepting a minimum guarantee from a platform. A show may be represented by a large network without being owned by that company. A successful personality may have substantial corporate support while retaining full editorial control.

The Indie PaC criteria attempt to consider who owns the content, whether the show publishes consistently, and whether the podcast or creator channel is a central part of the person’s business rather than a side project created primarily to support an existing celebrity career. The inaugural awards were announced as an event focused on creator ownership and independently produced media.

That discussion leads into the episode’s central theme: personalities are becoming media businesses.

Creators once waited for a network, publisher, studio, or broadcaster to select them.

Today, personalities can build audiences directly and expand across formats without waiting for a traditional gatekeeper. Their name, voice, perspective, and relationship with the audience can become the media’s primary brand.

Dan believes advertising dollars will continue moving toward these creator-led environments. A brand may no longer purchase only a podcast placement or a YouTube integration. It may sponsor the creator across several surfaces and negotiate rights to reuse the resulting content in paid campaigns.  That changes the asset being purchased.

The value can include the creator’s audience relationship, intellectual property, content, distribution reach, endorsement, likeness, and permission to repurpose the campaign. Dan sees trust as the element that connects those assets.

Host-read advertising remains especially important because the recommendation comes through a person the audience already knows.

The strongest integrations allow the creator to speak naturally, test the product, acknowledge limitations, and explain why it may be useful.

Rob and Dan share early examples from the podcasting market in which creators criticize parts of a sponsor’s offering during paid integrations. That apparent risk can make the rest of the endorsement more believable because the audience hears an honest response rather than polished marketing language.

The discussion also examines where an advertisement appears inside an episode.

Dan is sharply critical of post-roll advertising because much of the audience has already left by the time the ad plays. Rob and Dan also discuss pre-rolls, mid-rolls, dynamic insertion, programmatic advertising, and the effects of placing too many ads in a single episode.

Oxford Road has published PodLoad research comparing the number of advertising units placed within shows.

Dan argues that an impression in a program carrying 6 minutes of advertising per hour should not automatically be valued the same as one in a show carrying 20 minutes of advertising. Excessive ad load can weaken attention and reduce campaign performance. 

Brand values and suitability add another layer.

Dan believes advertisers should understand the values they claim to support and make intentional decisions about the creators and environments they fund.

Dan also believes brands became overly reactive during the height of the brand-safety debate and then moved too far in the opposite direction.

The goal should be a durable position that considers business outcomes alongside genuine organizational values. Audience demographics matter, but the creator’s tone, worldview, conduct, and credibility can also affect whether the partnership makes sense.

The second half of the episode turns to the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting, known as AMP.

Dan convened AMP as a one-year industry task force focused on three core questions:

– What qualifies as a podcast?
– How should exposure be counted across audio and video?
– How should advertising results be attributed?

AMP includes representatives from platforms, advertisers, publishers, creators, agencies, and measurement companies. Its stated purpose is to develop voluntary cross-platform standards that make podcast inventory easier to compare, buy, sell, and measure. 

One of the group’s most discussed recommendations is moving toward a 30-second play threshold.

Dan explains that he is less concerned with whether the correct threshold is exactly 30 seconds or 60 seconds. The larger problem is that different platforms use different definitions. That inconsistency prevents advertisers from confidently comparing performance across audio and video.

The 30-second recommendation reflects what AMP members believed had the greatest chance of broad adoption. A workable shared standard can move the market forward even when it does not represent every participant’s preferred method.

Dan compares the current landscape to islands that speak different languages. Each platform may have useful data, but the absence of a common language makes commerce harder. AMP is trying to provide a shared framework without requiring every platform to abandon its existing internal analytics.

The group is preparing the AMP Accords as a framework covering podcast classification, exposure, and advertising effectiveness. The official AMP site identifies Oxford Road as the organization that convened the process.

Rob and Dan then take on the most persistent question in podcasting: What is a podcast?

Two areas continue to create friction.

  1. One is whether a podcast must be distributed through RSS.
  2. The other is whether the medium must be primarily audio.

Dan believes RSS represents important principles, including open access and flexible distribution.

Dan does not believe RSS should be the only requirement determining whether a show qualifies as a podcast.

His practical test is whether the experience still works when the audience closes its eyes.

Video can enhance a podcast without disqualifying it. A program that requires constant visual attention will remain open to debate, but he argues that advertisers need enough consistency to conduct business.

Rob explains that RSS has increasingly become an industry-level, server-to-server distribution system. Many newer creators do not know where to find their RSS feed because hosting platforms now handle most submission and syndication work through dashboards and direct platform connections.

Audiences care even less about the technical delivery method. They call content a podcast based on how the experience looks and feels.

The conversation also covers Apple’s HLS video implementation. Rob supports the opportunity for high-quality streaming video but questions Apple’s use of a direct submission process rather than placing the HLS stream inside the open RSS feed. He believes alternative enclosures could enable the same video stream to reach more podcast apps without limiting it to a single platform.

Dan views HLS as broadly compatible with AMP’s goal of measuring real consumption across audio and video. He also recognizes that open distribution, platform control, creator ownership, and practical commercial adoption will continue pulling the market in different directions.

The episode closes with a look at what may happen to legacy media.

Dan does not expect established media companies to disappear quietly. Many still have capital, infrastructure, distribution, and the ability to acquire or support major personalities.

Dan expects some traditional media companies to adapt by functioning more like houses that provide resources to talent while allowing the personality to remain the visible brand.

Dan also expects renewed opportunity in local media, which could return through creator-led, community-focused models rather than traditional newspapers or broadcast stations.

Artificial intelligence will also become part of this future.

Dan sees value in personalized and AI-supported content, provided audiences can clearly understand when material is authentic, synthetic, or manipulated.

Rob argues that transparent labeling, human accountability, and audience awareness will become increasingly important as AI personalities and automated media gain adoption.

Episode 677 captures a media market in the middle of a structural change. Personalities are carrying audiences across platforms. Advertisers want creator trust while also demanding dependable measurement. Platforms want control over distribution, while creators want ownership and flexibility.

The companies that bring those interests together will help determine how creator media is bought, measured, and scaled.

Topics Covered in This Episode

– Why personalities are becoming media companies
– The CAO Summit and brand-to-brand learning
– Connecting advertisers directly with creators
– The purpose of the Indie PaC Awards
– How to define an independent creator
– Why independent shows can outperform larger networks
– Creator ownership and editorial control
– Brands shifting budget toward creator media
– Host-read advertising and audience trust
– Why honest creator criticism can improve an endorsement
– Pre-roll, mid-roll, and post-roll advertising
– Podcast ad load and campaign performance
– Brand safety, suitability, and values alignment
– Buying creators across several media platforms
– Licensing creator advertising content
– The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting
– The proposed 30-second podcast-play standard
– Measuring audio and video through a common framework
– Defining a podcast beyond RSS
– Why video does not automatically change the medium
– Apple HLS video and alternative RSS enclosures
– The IAB’s possible role in industry adoption
– Legacy media adaptation
– The future of local creator media
– AI content, personalization, and disclosure

Chapter Time Stamp Markers:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 677
00:19 How personality-led media is changing the market
03:10 Introducing Dan Granger of Oxford Road
04:00 Why in-person media gatherings matter again
06:14 How the CAO Summit began
07:31 Defining the Chief Audio Officer
09:19 Bringing advertisers and creators together
11:34 The Independent Podcast and Creator Awards
13:38 Deal Room and a new approach to podcast upfronts
14:21 What makes a creator truly independent?
16:06 Joe Rogan, ownership, and platform influence
17:42 Publishing activity and independent-creator criteria
18:20 Creators are taking control of the media world
20:26 Personality-driven media reaches every institution
22:12 Brands move more budget toward creator content
25:16 Trust as the core creator-media asset
27:00 Why host-read advertising still works
28:22 Product testing and honest creator endorsements
30:00 Ad placement, post-rolls, and wasted impressions
31:18 How excessive ad load damages performance
33:00 Rob’s early radio and podcast advertising experience
35:46 Remembering Todd Cochrane
36:46 What advertisers now value in creators
37:00 Buying a personality across multiple platforms
38:17 Licensing creator content for paid campaigns
39:18 Brand safety, values, and commercial outcomes
45:54 Introducing the AMP measurement project
47:37 The 30-second versus 60-second play debate
48:00 Why a shared measurement language matters
51:38 AMP’s one-year mission and planned conclusion
52:25 Why the industry still needs to define a podcast
54:26 RSS, audio, video, and open distribution
56:00 HLS video and cross-platform attribution
57:12 Apple APIs compared with RSS alternative enclosures
59:08 Is RSS still essential to podcasting?
1:00:00 Why consumers no longer think about RSS
1:01:30 Dan’s “works with your eyes closed” podcast test
1:03:37 Why advertisers need a practical definition
1:04:35 AMP’s position on podcasts without RSS
1:05:49 The RSS education gap among newer creators
1:07:43 Building standards that grow the entire market
1:09:22 The IAB’s role in measurement adoption
1:11:18 Will personalities replace legacy media brands?
1:12:27 The possible rebirth of local media
1:13:42 AI content, personalization, and labeling
1:16:00 AMP’s contribution to a more scalable market
1:17:35 Closing remarks

Guest Links: Dan Granger, Founder and CEO, Oxford Road

Oxford Road: https://oxfordroad.com
Dan Granger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dangranger
Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting: https://www.ampaccords.com
Oxford Road Thought Leadership: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership
Oxford Road ORBIT: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership/orbit
Indie PaC Awards Announcement: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership/this-weeks-influencer-introducing-the-inaugural-indie-pac-awards-tiktok-resumes-its-long-form-push-orbit-deems-niche-sports-vips-and-more

Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure Note

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain mine. The discussion reflects the views expressed by my guest and me during the recorded conversation.

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Creators Become Media | Steve Wilson, Daylight Media and QCODE #676

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest Steve Wilson of Daylight Media & QCODEIn Episode #676 of the New Media Show, host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Steve Wilson, Chief Strategy Officer at Daylight Media and QCODE, for a wide-ranging conversation about the shift from producing a successful podcast to building a sustainable creator-led media company.

Creators no longer operate in a simple world of publishing one show to ONE place and relying mainly on advertising.

The strongest creators are building direct relationships with audiences across podcasts, video, short-form clips, newsletters, communities, subscriptions, live events, products, and services.

Podcasting remains one of the most effective long-form formats for building trust and repeated audience connection.

It is now one part of a larger media strategy shaped by video distribution, platform algorithms, artificial intelligence, audience ownership, and the growing power of individual personalities.

Steve brings a valuable perspective to this discussion. Before joining QCODE, he spent years working with Apple Podcasts and iTunes. At QCODE, he helped develop and distribute premium scripted audio series featuring talent including Matthew McConaughey, Demi Moore, and Rami Malek. QCODE has since expanded through Daylight Media, which provides distribution, monetization, technology, marketing, and business support for a broader network of creators.

Daylight currently works with roughly 70 creators and shows representing approximately 300 million monthly audio downloads and video views.

Across that network, video now accounts for a significant share of consumption, although the balance between audio and video differs considerably from show to show.

That difference is important.

Some creators have audiences that strongly favor YouTube and Spotify video. Other shows continue to perform primarily through audio.

For some programs, video may be valuable mainly as a discovery and social marketing layer rather than as the central product. Steve argues that creators should evaluate their format, audience, resources, and business goals before committing to a major video expansion.

Rob and Steve discuss Apple’s HLS video support and why it may become an important addition to the podcast distribution ecosystem. HLS can give creators greater flexibility in delivering video while maintaining many of the ownership and control principles associated with RSS.

The larger issue is whether creators retain access to their audience data, revenue information, advertising options, and the ability to move their shows between services.

The conversation also examines what makes a show work in both audio and video.

A strong video presentation may include thoughtful set design, lighting, visual storytelling, archival material, graphics, and physical objects that add context. The underlying audio still needs to stand on its own.

Listeners should not feel as though they are receiving an incomplete version of a show because they cannot see what is happening on screen.

Steve points to television, documentary production, and the work of filmmakers such as Ken Burns as useful references.

A show can begin with excellent audio storytelling and add visuals that deepen the experience without making the audio audience feel secondary.

There are also cases where the audio and video products should remain different. Scripted fiction uses sound to create a theater of the mind, allowing listeners to imagine the world and its characters. Turning that same property into a visual production may require a separate creative and business decision rather than a simple video version of the podcast.

We also explore the potential for long-form content on Instagram, the renewed interest in vertical video, and the growing market for microdramas. They also revisit Quibi and consider whether some earlier media ideas failed because the technology, audience behavior, or distribution environment was not yet ready for them.

The discussion then turns to one of the most important distinctions between podcasting and YouTube.

YouTube can generate large spikes around individual videos, but performance may vary widely from episode to episode.

Traditional RSS-based podcast audiences are often more consistent. That stability can make an audio podcast especially valuable to advertisers because future episode delivery and revenue are easier to forecast.

YouTube is highly effective for discovery. Podcast feeds are often stronger at developing recurring habits around a series. Successful media companies will increasingly need to understand the value of both.

Catalog discovery is another major opportunity. Podcasts and long-form videos can remain useful for years, but most platforms continue to prioritize newly released material. Steve argues that the industry needs better ways to help audiences find relevant episodes from existing catalogs based on subject, location, interest, and current context.

Daylight recently acquired Podcast Review, a long-running editorial publication focused on podcast reviews, interviews, recommendations, and lists. Steve sees independent editorial guidance as an important part of helping audiences find strong shows beyond what algorithms automatically recommend. Podcast Review continues to publish consumer-focused coverage while operating as a Daylight Media property with stated editorial standards and disclosures. 

Rob and Steve discuss whether the audience now has more influence over what qualifies as a podcast. Listeners and viewers increasingly use the word to describe a style of recurring, personality-led media rather than a specific technical delivery method.

Steve is less concerned with rigid format definitions. He compares the current debate to earlier questions about whether a streaming series released all at once should still be called television. Distribution formats change. Audience behavior changes. The most useful question is whether the content delivers the experience people expect from the show.

The second half of the episode focuses on creators becoming media companies.

Daylight works with creators at different stages, from established personalities such as Jon Stewart to growing shows entering advertising for the first time. Some partners need only ad sales support. Others are developing subscriptions, merchandise, tours, live events, networks, and additional shows.

Steve describes Daylight as an infrastructure layer that often works behind the scenes. The goal is to help the creator’s brand remain visible while providing the operational systems needed to grow. Daylight was launched as an expansion of QCODE’s creator-support work, with services covering distribution, audience development, marketing, technology, products, and monetization. 

Creator-first structure differs from an older media model in which the studio or network brand often controlled the relationship between talent and audience. Steve believes the next era will give creators more leverage, flexibility, and ownership. The companies that support them will need to prove their value without taking over the show’s identity.

Artificial intelligence is already affecting that work, although adoption varies widely. Some creators are using AI for research, transcription, artwork, editing, and production support. Others remain strongly opposed to it.

Steve does not see the choice as a complete acceptance or rejection of AI.

Each use case needs to be evaluated separately. Voice dubbing may help a creator correct a short line without having to re-record an entire session. Transcription can reduce production time. Synthetic performances or undisclosed manipulation may violate the audience’s expectations and trust.

Both agree that growing volumes of synthetic content may also increase the value of live, in-person, and clearly human experiences. 

Podcast tours, creator conferences, community gatherings, retreats, and interactive events allow audiences to participate in ways that digital platforms cannot fully reproduce. The opportunity may extend beyond recording a regular episode on stage.

Future creator events could include audience conversations, workshops, performances, shared activities, and experiences built around a particular community or interest.

This episode offers a clear view of where creator media is heading. A show can remain the center of the relationship, but the greater opportunity lies in building a flexible media business around the audience, protecting creator ownership, and selecting formats that serve the content rather than following every platform trend.

Topics Covered in This Episode

– Why successful creators are becoming media companies
– QCODE’s expansion into Daylight Media
– Audio and video consumption across the Daylight network
– Apple HLS video and creator-controlled distribution
– Why every show needs a different audio and video strategy
– Set design and visual storytelling for video shows
– Preserving a complete experience for audio listeners
– Scripted fiction, video adaptations, and intellectual property
– Instagram, vertical video, and microdramas
– YouTube discovery compared with RSS audience stability
– Evergreen content and podcast-catalog discovery
– Apple Podcasts editorial discovery
– Daylight Media’s acquisition of Podcast Review
– Whether audiences now define what a podcast is
– Revenue beyond advertising
– Subscriptions, merchandise, networks, touring, and events
– Daylight as a behind-the-scenes creator infrastructure company
– RSS, APIs, alternate enclosures, and platform control
– Creator access to audience and revenue data
– AI production tools and audience trust
– The growing value of live and human experiences

Chapter Time Stamp Markers:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 676
00:36 Creators are building full media businesses
02:24 Introducing Steve Wilson of Daylight Media and QCODE
03:05 How QCODE expanded into Daylight Media
04:23 From premium audio fiction to a creator network
05:16 Video now drives much of the network’s consumption
05:59 Apple HLS video and creator flexibility
08:27 Why there is no single audio-video strategy
09:03 What makes a show work in video?
10:44 Keeping audio listeners at the center
12:09 Higher production values and video set design
14:34 Theater of the mind and the value of audio
15:37 Short-form video and social-first podcasts
16:00 Could Instagram become a long-form video platform?
17:33 Microdramas, vertical storytelling, and the Quibi lesson
18:27 Audio-first creators and video anxiety
19:24 YouTube volatility compared with RSS stability
21:01 Tentpole episodes, long-form content, and audience habits
22:10 Evergreen catalog discovery
23:26 Apple Podcasts editorial discovery
25:00 Daylight Media acquires Podcast Review
25:46 Is the audience taking control of media definitions?
27:52 Does the technical definition of a podcast still matter?
31:03 Moving from a show to a media company
32:14 Daylight’s creator network and growth spectrum
32:54 Subscriptions, merchandise, tours, and new revenue
33:35 Daylight as a creator infrastructure layer
34:07 Why Daylight works behind the scenes
36:12 The future of video distribution and RSS
37:17 Alternate enclosures and location-based discovery
38:24 Creator ownership beyond RSS purity
39:59 Audio ads, video ads, platforms, and advertiser results
41:07 Independent creators gain more media power
42:07 How creators are using AI
43:02 Where AI can damage audience trust
45:05 AI voice dubbing and practical production uses
45:34 The return of live and human experiences
47:18 Podcast tours, conferences, and creator communities
49:18 Building more interactive creator events
50:51 Final thoughts on Daylight Media and QCODE
51:31 Where to find Daylight and QCODE shows
52:44 End of episode

Guest Links: Steve Wilson, Chief Strategy Officer, Daylight Media and QCODE

Daylight Media: https://daylightmedia.com
QCODE Media: https://qcodemedia.com
Podcast Review: https://podcastreview.org
Steve Wilson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenwilson7
Steve Wilson on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wilsonomics

Steve Wilson is currently Chief Strategy Officer at Daylight Media, with his work continuing across the QCODE and Daylight organizations.

Host, Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

About Trust Factor Lab

Trust Factor Lab helps creators, media leaders, executives, and brands build stronger audience trust across AI, video, podcasts, and creator-led media. Founded by Rob Greenlee, it focuses on content strategy, authority development, media positioning, AI transparency, audience growth, and business outcomes built through credibility.

AI Disclosure Note:

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain mine. The discussion reflects the views expressed by my guest and me during the recorded conversation.

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Podcasting Beyond the Download | Casey Adams, Listener.com #673

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Host, Rob Greenlee with #673 Guest Casey Adams, Lisener.comIn Episode 673 of the New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Casey Adams, founder and CEO of Listener.com and host of The Casey Adams Show, for a timely conversation about how podcasting, video, social content, advertising, and new media measurement are rapidly converging.

For more than 20 years, podcasting has relied heavily on RSS feeds, downloads, and audio-first measurement as the foundation of distribution and advertising value. That still matters, but the media environment around it has changed dramatically.

Shows now are distributed across Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, social video, newsletters, clips, livestreams, and direct audience communities. Audiences may call it all a podcast, even as the industry continues to debate its technical definition.

Casey brings a founder, creator, and investor perspective to the discussion. He started podcasting as a teenager, interviewing founders and entrepreneurs, and later built MediaKits.com before moving into podcast analytics with Listener.com. His current work focuses on helping modern publishers understand how a single episode performs across audio, long-form video, short-form clips, newsletters, and social platforms.

Rob and Casey explore why the term “podcast” now means different things to different groups. To many longtime industry professionals, podcasting still points back to RSS-based audio distribution. To many younger listeners and viewers, it means a format: a recurring show, often conversational, often video-enabled, and consumed wherever attention already exists.

The conversation centers on one of the biggest questions facing podcasting and new media right now:

How do you measure the true value of a show when the audience is no longer in one place?

Rob and Casey also discuss why the download can no longer carry the entire weight of podcast measurement.

A single episode may now generate value through an Apple Podcasts listen, a Spotify stream, a full YouTube view, a YouTube Short, a TikTok clip, a LinkedIn post, an X post, a newsletter mention, and a brand integration that travels across all of those surfaces. Each platform counts activity differently. Each platform has its own audience behavior. That makes reporting, sponsorship value, and campaign analysis more complex.

Casey explains Listener.com’s concept of episode clusters: grouping the full set of related content around one episode so publishers and advertisers can see the larger cross-platform reach and performance.

Instead of treating the audio file as the entire campaign, an episode cluster recognizes that one conversation can become long-form video, social clips, newsletter content, and multiple ad touchpoints.

We also discuss the rising influence of creator-led media companies. Examples like TBPN, Jomboy Media, Substack’s media activity, and venture-backed new media brands show how independent shows and creator-driven networks are increasingly competing with legacy media for attention, trust, and advertiser value.

The conversation explores why companies, CEOs, investors, and major brands now seek to control their own narrative through podcasts, owned shows, and trusted media relationships.

We also examine the advertising side of this shift. Brands want better campaign reporting, but they also want context. A host-read placement, a social clip, a full video episode, and a newsletter mention should not all be treated the same.

Modern publishers need tools that let them demonstrate the full value of their media ecosystem without flattening every metric into a single misleading number.

Meaning for creators. Being a podcaster may no longer fully describe the work involved. Modern show builders are becoming media operators. They need to understand production, audience behavior, platform distribution, brand positioning, analytics, content packaging, and trust. The technical meaning of podcasting still matters, but the audience meaning matters just as much now.

For creators, networks, agencies, and brands, Episode 673 offers a clear look at the next stage of podcasting: a media business built around trusted shows, distributed everywhere, measured more intelligently, and no longer limited to downloads.

Topics Covered in This Episode:

00:33 Why podcast measurement is changing
01:00 Moving beyond the download
01:44 RSS, streaming, and modern distribution challenges
02:42 Introducing Casey Adams of Listener.com
03:37 Casey Adams joins the show
04:17 What Listener.com is trying to solve
05:00 AI-powered analytics for modern podcast publishers
05:41 Casey’s podcasting origin story
06:30 Interviewing Larry King and learning from media legends
07:18 Larry King’s warning about rejecting new media trends
08:04 From MediaKits.com to Listener.com
09:15 Rob’s early podcasting and radio background
10:04 Why the industry struggles with change
11:00 Does Casey still consider himself a podcaster?
12:00 Podcasts as a format, not just a technology
13:10 YouTube, Spotify, and the expanded podcast ecosystem
14:34 Why modern shows must meet audiences where they are
15:37 The audience now defines what a podcast means
16:16 RSS audio vs the broader podcast perception
17:16 Apple HLS and the pressure on RSS
18:17 The industry needs to accept broader podcast usage
19:26 Younger audiences and podcast consumption habits
20:39 Larry King’s quote behind Listener.com
21:25 Why RSS is becoming less visible to creators and audiences
23:21 Respecting podcasting’s roots while accepting change
24:00 The Uber analogy for podcasting’s disruption
25:41 Journalists, creators, and independent media companies
27:49 Creator-led media and the rise of new media brands
28:33 Legacy media relevance is being challenged
30:13 TBPN and the new media company model
31:28 Treating a show like a full media ecosystem
32:36 Year-long sponsorships and category exclusivity
33:49 Why serious creators must think like media companies
35:19 How podcast analytics supports advertiser relationships
36:00 Silicon Valley’s renewed interest in “new media”
37:23 The pandemic pushed legacy media into creator workflows
38:16 Casey introduces the Listener.com platform
39:05 Jomboy Media and creator-led sports coverage
40:00 Episode clusters and cross-platform performance
41:00 Tracking long-form video, audio, and short-form clips
42:18 Episode reports for brands and publishers
43:05 Why every platform metric should be valued differently
44:00 How Listener.com supports campaign reporting
45:00 Aggregating metrics from multiple platforms
46:00 Audio, content, commerce, and newsletter integrations
47:00 Using AI to match clips to episodes
48:00 Listener AI and talking to your podcast data
49:23 Making podcast data easier to understand and share
50:00 Where podcast analytics and AI go next
51:28 AI can guide creators, but execution still wins
52:23 Using AI as a thought partner for content strategy
53:24 Why creators must keep improving their shows
54:47 What drives new media inspiration today?
56:01 Why companies want to control their narrative
57:15 CEOs, podcasts, and trusted long-form conversations
58:22 Substack, owned media, and creator platforms
59:21 New podcast metrics standards and platform conflicts
1:00:35 How different platforms count views and plays
1:02:16 Serving publishers while tracking industry standards
1:03:00 Why brands need better cross-platform campaign reports
1:04:28 Toward better host-read campaign reporting
1:05:14 How platform changes flow into Listener.com data
1:06:00 Why publishers should control their own data
1:07:00 Putting a show’s full value forward
1:08:03 Brand, trust, and modern podcast IP
1:09:34 OpenAI, TBPN, and strategic media investment
1:10:32 Why TBPN brought sponsors back
1:11:11 How media brands can help shift company narratives
1:12:15 New media as a strategic communications layer
1:14:00 Lessons from AI-generated podcast network messaging
1:14:46 The risk of platform influence after acquisition
1:16:00 Why the TBPN deal was more than a podcast deal
1:16:39 Will more companies buy or build media brands?
1:17:40 HubSpot, distribution, and trusted voices
1:18:08 Why creators must stay honest with audiences
1:19:40 Authenticity and audience trust in sponsorships
1:20:05 Casey’s closing thoughts on podcasting and new media
1:20:34 Rob’s closing view on podcasting as one lane in new media
1:21:41 How publishers can work with Listener.com
1:22:43 Networks, independent shows, and Listener.com’s go-to-market
1:23:56 Closing remarks and where to find the show

Guest Links: Casey Adams, Founder and CEO, Listener.com

Listener.com: https://listener.com
Casey Adams Show & Website: https://www.caseyadams.com
The Casey Adams Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-casey-adams-show/id1328795944
Casey Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casey-adams-430b3114a/
Casey Adams on X: https://x.com/CaseyAdams
Casey Adams on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casey/

Host: Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

Personal / AI Disclosure Note

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest’s. This article reflects my editorial direction and the substance of the conversation.

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Can Creator Economy Build a Better Podcasting? | Sam Sethi, TrueFans #671

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Rob Greenlee and Guest Sam Sethi of TruFansIn this episode of The New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Sam Sethi, founder of TrueFans and co-host of the Podnews Weekly Review.

They had a wide-ranging conversation about the future of podcasting inside the larger creator economy.

Podcasting helped create the independent creator movement through RSS, niche audiences, direct publishing, and long-form content that builds audience trust.

Today’s creators are building broader businesses around video, memberships, newsletters, live events, merchandise, premium content, clips, community, and direct fan relationships.

So, can the creator economy help build a better, more sustainable podcasting industry?

Rob and Sam explore why podcasting can no longer think only in terms of feeds, files, downloads, and ad impressions. They discuss the rise of creator portals, the importance of owning the relationship with audiences, and how platforms such as Patreon, Substack, Beehiiv, YouTube, Spotify, and Apple are changing creator expectations.

The conversation also examines whether advertising is becoming less central to the creator business model, and how subscriptions, premium content, micropayments, stablecoins, and value-for-value models could create new ways to share revenue among creators, listening apps, platforms, and even audiences.

Sam shares his perspective on HLS streaming, watch time and listen time analytics, activity streams, super fans, publisher feeds, and “super feeds” that can connect audio, video, events, merchandise, blogs, and community into a more portable, creator-owned media presence.

Rob and Sam also dig into the impact of AI on podcasting: AI-generated shows, human engagement as a discovery signal, AI bots scraping media, the rising need for clear content licensing, and the tension between making content available to AI discovery systems while protecting creator rights and value.

This episode is a deep look at where open RSS, creator ownership, platform control, AI discovery, video, monetization, and audience relationships may be heading next.

Topics covered in this episode include:

• The evolution of podcasting into a broader creator-led media business
• Why creators need direct relationships with fans, not just platform reach
• Creator portals – memberships, newsletters, live events, merchandise, and premium content
• Whether ad-supported podcasting is becoming less important
• HLS streaming, listen-time and watch-time measurement, and better advertising accountability
• Micropayments, value-for-value, stablecoins, and new revenue-sharing models
• Activity streams, super fans, community engagement, and audience signals
• AI-generated podcasts, discovery, AI bots, and licensing creator content
• Publisher feeds, super feeds, playlists, and collective buying power for independent creators
• Open RSS, data portability, proprietary platforms, and the future of media distribution

The New Media Show is a human-hosted and guested conversation about the future of creator-led digital media, including podcasting, video, live streaming, AI, audience trust, discovery, monetization, platforms, and the changing relationship between creators and their communities.

Watch the video and audio editions below and on YouTube; listen to the audio edition in your favorite podcast app; watch the video edition in Apple Podcasts; and visit NewMediaShow.com and RobGreenlee.com for more episodes and industry conversations.

Guest Links: Sam Sethi, Founder/CEO, TrueFans

TrueFans: https://truefans.fm
Sam Sethi on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/samsethi
Sam Sethi on TrueFans: https://truefans.fm/fans/sam
Podnews Weekly Review: https://weekly.podnews.net
Sam Sethi on Podnews Weekly Review: https://weekly.podnews.net/1538779/contributors/411-sam-sethi

Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com/
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/

About the Host/Author:
Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair, a global new-media leader who bridges podcasting’s human roots and its AI-driven future. As founder of Trust Factor Lab and host of the New Media Show and Spoken Human, Rob helps creators start, grow, monetize, and future-proof their content. He has held leadership roles at Microsoft, Spreaker, Libsyn, StreamYard, Podbean, and PodcastOne, and serves as Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame.

Personal / AI Disclosure Note:
I used AI tools to help organize and edit this video, episode description, and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest’s. I have been working in podcasting, digital media, and platform adoption for more than two decades, and this article reflects my own position and editorial direction.

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Podcasting Is Not Broken. It Is Becoming Something Bigger

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Rob Greenlee - NewMediaShow.comBy Rob Greenlee

I do not believe podcasting is broken.

I also do not believe podcasting is outdated.

But I understand why some people are starting to say that. The medium is changing so fast right now that it can feel like the old definitions no longer fit what audiences and creators are actually doing.

That does not mean podcasting is dying. It means podcasting has reached a major inflection point.

For audiences, podcasts have become one of the main media habits in everyday life. People listen while driving, walking, working, exercising, relaxing, and doing all the things that make audio such a powerful companion medium. That part has not gone away. Audio remains deeply personal, flexible, and trusted.

But for many creators, the word “podcaster” no longer fully describes what they are building.

They are making shows.

They are producing conversations, video episodes, clips, livestreams, newsletters, communities, events, and social content. The podcast is still part of the system, but it is no longer always the whole identity.

That is the big shift.

The traditional definition of a podcast as an audio-first, RSS-distributed show remains important. It is the foundation of the medium. It gave podcasting its openness, portability, and independence. But that definition is increasingly becoming one part of a larger video-first creator strategy.

This is where some tension comes in.

Audio-first creators will continue to have large audiences. Many of the most trusted and successful shows will remain primarily audio-driven. There will always be room for audio-first storytelling, interviews, news, education, comedy, and commentary. Audio is not going away.

But audio-first alone may no longer be the path to the largest possible audience.

Discovery has shifted. Audience behavior has shifted. Monetization has shifted. Younger audiences often discover shows through video clips, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other social platforms before they ever subscribe to an RSS feed or follow a show in a traditional podcast app.

For many people, the first experience of a “podcast” is now a video moment.

That does not make it less of a podcast. It means the audience definition has expanded beyond the industry definition.

This is why I keep saying we are moving from “podcasts” into a broader “shows” era.

The show is the core intellectual property. The show is the brand. The show is the relationship with the audience. Audio, video, clips, newsletters, and community are all distribution expressions of that show.

That shift has real consequences for the entire industry.

Hosting companies have to think beyond audio file delivery. Apps have to think beyond audio playback. Ad platforms have to think beyond downloads. Measurement companies have to think beyond separate audio and video reports. Creators have to think beyond a single format and a single feed.

This is especially true as HLS video streaming begins to scale inside podcasting.

The Apple Podcasts shift toward HLS video streaming is a major signal. Video podcasting is no longer just about uploading a large MP4 file or posting a version on YouTube. It is moving toward modern streaming infrastructure, adaptive playback, dynamic ad possibilities, and more seamless switching between listening and viewing.

That means some of what we have historically called audio-only consumption may increasingly be delivered through video-enabled HLS streaming systems. A person may listen to the audio from a video podcast stream. They may start with video, switch to audio, or never look at the screen at all. The content experience becomes more fluid.

That creates a major measurement challenge.

The industry cannot keep treating audio and video metrics as if they live in separate worlds. Creators need to know the show’s total reach and value, not just the performance of a single format in a single app.

Downloads, streams, plays, views, watch time, listen time, completion, retention, subscribers, followers, and engagement all need to be consolidated into a single framework.

Right now, too much of the industry is still measuring yesterday’s format while the audience is already consuming tomorrow’s show.

This is not just a technical issue. It is a business issue.

If a creator has 50,000 audio downloads, 100,000 YouTube views, 25,000 Spotify video plays, 15,000 Apple video streams, and millions of short-form impressions, what is the actual size and value of that show?

The old answer was to separate all of that into different buckets.

The new answer has to be more unified.

Brands and sponsors want to understand total audience impact. Creators want to understand where trust, attention, and revenue are being created. Platforms want to prove value. Hosting companies want to stay relevant. Measurement providers want to remain credible.

That requires merged and consolidated metrics.

Podcasting has always struggled with measurement consistency, even in the audio-only era. Now video makes that challenge more complicated, but also more urgent.

The industry needs a better way to measure shows across formats, not just files across feeds.

This does not mean we abandon RSS. It does not mean we abandon audio. It does not mean every creator has to become a YouTuber or video personality.

It means podcasting has to evolve its infrastructure, language, and business model to align with what audiences are already doing.

The audience does not care whether the industry calls something a podcast, a video podcast, a show, a stream, or creator media.

They ONLY care whether it is useful, entertaining, trustworthy, and available where they already spend time.

That is the part we should pay attention to.

Podcasting is expanding.

It is expanding into video. It is expanding into streaming. It is expanding into social/YouTube discovery. It is expanding into creator-led media brands. It is expanding into AI-assisted and generated production and distribution. It is expanding into a world where the show matters more than the format.

The danger is not that podcasting is outdated.

The danger is that the industry keeps defending an old definition while the audience has already moved into a broader one.

The future of podcasting will still include audio-first shows, RSS feeds, open distribution, and traditional podcast apps. Those pieces still matter. But the growth edge of the medium is moving toward video-enabled, multi-format, cross-platform show experiences.

The inflection point.

– The creators who understand this will not stop being podcasters. They will become stronger show builders.

– The companies that understand this will not abandon podcasting. They will build the infrastructure for the next version.

– And the industry that understands this will stop asking whether podcasting is broken and start asking a better question:

– How do we preserve what made podcasting powerful while building the modern show-based media ecosystem it is clearly becoming?

About the Author

Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair, a global new media leader who bridges podcasting’s human roots with its AI-driven future. As founder of Trust Factor Lab and host of the “New Media Show” and “Spoken Human”, Rob helps creators start, grow, monetize, and future-proof their content. He’s held leadership roles at Microsoft, Spreaker, Libsyn, StreamYard, and PodcastOne, and serves as Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame. Learn more at RobGreenlee.com and join the Trust Factor Lab Creator/Podcast Services.

Personal note: I used AI tools to help organize this article and hand-edited it; the views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine. I have been working in podcasting and platform adoption for more than two decades, and this article reflects my own position. The original word choice was mine, and so is the clarification.