podcast monetization

How Brands Buy Creator Media | Dan Granger, Oxford Road #677

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest Dan Granger, CEO of Oxford RoadIn Episode 677 of the New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee welcomes Dan Granger, founder and CEO of Oxford Road, for a detailed conversation about how personality-led media is changing what brands buy, how audiences are measured, and what the podcast industry must do to support its next stage of growth.

Audiences increasingly follow people rather than traditional media channels.

A trusted personality can carry an audience across podcasts, YouTube, livestreams, newsletters, social platforms, communities, events, and direct business relationships.

Advertisers, however, still tend to purchase and measure those formats as separate media channels.

That disconnect is becoming one of the largest challenges facing creator media. A creator may record a single conversation and distribute it across multiple platforms, yet each platform reports exposure differently. Advertisers are then left trying to compare downloads, streams, video views, watch time, impressions, attribution data, and host-read performance without a consistent standard.

Dan has spent his career connecting advertisers with personality-driven media. Oxford Road now describes its work as building performance systems across audio, video, creator, and programmatic media, with Dan serving as the company’s CEO.

The conversation begins with Oxford Road’s growing investment in bringing brands, creators, platforms, and media leaders together in person.

Dan explains how the company’s CAO Summit developed from the idea of a “Chief Audio Officer,” the person inside a brand responsible for making audio advertising work. That responsibility may belong to a founder, marketing leader, media buyer, or growth executive rather than someone with a formal audio title.

The CAO Summit was designed as a peer-learning environment where advertisers could speak openly with other advertisers about measurement, attribution, creative performance, and the practical problems preventing brands from spending more in podcasts and creator media. Oxford Road continues to position the CAO Summit as a meeting point for the marketers, platforms, and creators shaping what it calls “Podcast+” media. 

They also discuss the Independent Podcast and Creator Awards, also known as the Indie PaC Awards. The program was created to recognize independently owned creators and shows at a time when consolidation continues across podcasting and digital media.

Dan argues that independent creators remain central to the value of podcasting.

Creators who maintain closer relationships with their audiences, retain more editorial control, and deliver strong results for advertisers. Oxford Road’s own published ORBIT rankings show that independent shows account for a large share of its strongest-performing podcast inventory. 

Defining an independent creator is difficult, though.

A creator may own the intellectual property while accepting a minimum guarantee from a platform. A show may be represented by a large network without being owned by that company. A successful personality may have substantial corporate support while retaining full editorial control.

The Indie PaC criteria attempt to consider who owns the content, whether the show publishes consistently, and whether the podcast or creator channel is a central part of the person’s business rather than a side project created primarily to support an existing celebrity career. The inaugural awards were announced as an event focused on creator ownership and independently produced media.

That discussion leads into the episode’s central theme: personalities are becoming media businesses.

Creators once waited for a network, publisher, studio, or broadcaster to select them.

Today, personalities can build audiences directly and expand across formats without waiting for a traditional gatekeeper. Their name, voice, perspective, and relationship with the audience can become the media’s primary brand.

Dan believes advertising dollars will continue moving toward these creator-led environments. A brand may no longer purchase only a podcast placement or a YouTube integration. It may sponsor the creator across several surfaces and negotiate rights to reuse the resulting content in paid campaigns.  That changes the asset being purchased.

The value can include the creator’s audience relationship, intellectual property, content, distribution reach, endorsement, likeness, and permission to repurpose the campaign. Dan sees trust as the element that connects those assets.

Host-read advertising remains especially important because the recommendation comes through a person the audience already knows.

The strongest integrations allow the creator to speak naturally, test the product, acknowledge limitations, and explain why it may be useful.

Rob and Dan share early examples from the podcasting market in which creators criticize parts of a sponsor’s offering during paid integrations. That apparent risk can make the rest of the endorsement more believable because the audience hears an honest response rather than polished marketing language.

The discussion also examines where an advertisement appears inside an episode.

Dan is sharply critical of post-roll advertising because much of the audience has already left by the time the ad plays. Rob and Dan also discuss pre-rolls, mid-rolls, dynamic insertion, programmatic advertising, and the effects of placing too many ads in a single episode.

Oxford Road has published PodLoad research comparing the number of advertising units placed within shows.

Dan argues that an impression in a program carrying 6 minutes of advertising per hour should not automatically be valued the same as one in a show carrying 20 minutes of advertising. Excessive ad load can weaken attention and reduce campaign performance. 

Brand values and suitability add another layer.

Dan believes advertisers should understand the values they claim to support and make intentional decisions about the creators and environments they fund.

Dan also believes brands became overly reactive during the height of the brand-safety debate and then moved too far in the opposite direction.

The goal should be a durable position that considers business outcomes alongside genuine organizational values. Audience demographics matter, but the creator’s tone, worldview, conduct, and credibility can also affect whether the partnership makes sense.

The second half of the episode turns to the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting, known as AMP.

Dan convened AMP as a one-year industry task force focused on three core questions:

– What qualifies as a podcast?
– How should exposure be counted across audio and video?
– How should advertising results be attributed?

AMP includes representatives from platforms, advertisers, publishers, creators, agencies, and measurement companies. Its stated purpose is to develop voluntary cross-platform standards that make podcast inventory easier to compare, buy, sell, and measure. 

One of the group’s most discussed recommendations is moving toward a 30-second play threshold.

Dan explains that he is less concerned with whether the correct threshold is exactly 30 seconds or 60 seconds. The larger problem is that different platforms use different definitions. That inconsistency prevents advertisers from confidently comparing performance across audio and video.

The 30-second recommendation reflects what AMP members believed had the greatest chance of broad adoption. A workable shared standard can move the market forward even when it does not represent every participant’s preferred method.

Dan compares the current landscape to islands that speak different languages. Each platform may have useful data, but the absence of a common language makes commerce harder. AMP is trying to provide a shared framework without requiring every platform to abandon its existing internal analytics.

The group is preparing the AMP Accords as a framework covering podcast classification, exposure, and advertising effectiveness. The official AMP site identifies Oxford Road as the organization that convened the process.

Rob and Dan then take on the most persistent question in podcasting: What is a podcast?

Two areas continue to create friction.

  1. One is whether a podcast must be distributed through RSS.
  2. The other is whether the medium must be primarily audio.

Dan believes RSS represents important principles, including open access and flexible distribution.

Dan does not believe RSS should be the only requirement determining whether a show qualifies as a podcast.

His practical test is whether the experience still works when the audience closes its eyes.

Video can enhance a podcast without disqualifying it. A program that requires constant visual attention will remain open to debate, but he argues that advertisers need enough consistency to conduct business.

Rob explains that RSS has increasingly become an industry-level, server-to-server distribution system. Many newer creators do not know where to find their RSS feed because hosting platforms now handle most submission and syndication work through dashboards and direct platform connections.

Audiences care even less about the technical delivery method. They call content a podcast based on how the experience looks and feels.

The conversation also covers Apple’s HLS video implementation. Rob supports the opportunity for high-quality streaming video but questions Apple’s use of a direct submission process rather than placing the HLS stream inside the open RSS feed. He believes alternative enclosures could enable the same video stream to reach more podcast apps without limiting it to a single platform.

Dan views HLS as broadly compatible with AMP’s goal of measuring real consumption across audio and video. He also recognizes that open distribution, platform control, creator ownership, and practical commercial adoption will continue pulling the market in different directions.

The episode closes with a look at what may happen to legacy media.

Dan does not expect established media companies to disappear quietly. Many still have capital, infrastructure, distribution, and the ability to acquire or support major personalities.

Dan expects some traditional media companies to adapt by functioning more like houses that provide resources to talent while allowing the personality to remain the visible brand.

Dan also expects renewed opportunity in local media, which could return through creator-led, community-focused models rather than traditional newspapers or broadcast stations.

Artificial intelligence will also become part of this future.

Dan sees value in personalized and AI-supported content, provided audiences can clearly understand when material is authentic, synthetic, or manipulated.

Rob argues that transparent labeling, human accountability, and audience awareness will become increasingly important as AI personalities and automated media gain adoption.

Episode 677 captures a media market in the middle of a structural change. Personalities are carrying audiences across platforms. Advertisers want creator trust while also demanding dependable measurement. Platforms want control over distribution, while creators want ownership and flexibility.

The companies that bring those interests together will help determine how creator media is bought, measured, and scaled.

Topics Covered in This Episode

– Why personalities are becoming media companies
– The CAO Summit and brand-to-brand learning
– Connecting advertisers directly with creators
– The purpose of the Indie PaC Awards
– How to define an independent creator
– Why independent shows can outperform larger networks
– Creator ownership and editorial control
– Brands shifting budget toward creator media
– Host-read advertising and audience trust
– Why honest creator criticism can improve an endorsement
– Pre-roll, mid-roll, and post-roll advertising
– Podcast ad load and campaign performance
– Brand safety, suitability, and values alignment
– Buying creators across several media platforms
– Licensing creator advertising content
– The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting
– The proposed 30-second podcast-play standard
– Measuring audio and video through a common framework
– Defining a podcast beyond RSS
– Why video does not automatically change the medium
– Apple HLS video and alternative RSS enclosures
– The IAB’s possible role in industry adoption
– Legacy media adaptation
– The future of local creator media
– AI content, personalization, and disclosure

Chapter Time Stamp Markers:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 677
00:19 How personality-led media is changing the market
03:10 Introducing Dan Granger of Oxford Road
04:00 Why in-person media gatherings matter again
06:14 How the CAO Summit began
07:31 Defining the Chief Audio Officer
09:19 Bringing advertisers and creators together
11:34 The Independent Podcast and Creator Awards
13:38 Deal Room and a new approach to podcast upfronts
14:21 What makes a creator truly independent?
16:06 Joe Rogan, ownership, and platform influence
17:42 Publishing activity and independent-creator criteria
18:20 Creators are taking control of the media world
20:26 Personality-driven media reaches every institution
22:12 Brands move more budget toward creator content
25:16 Trust as the core creator-media asset
27:00 Why host-read advertising still works
28:22 Product testing and honest creator endorsements
30:00 Ad placement, post-rolls, and wasted impressions
31:18 How excessive ad load damages performance
33:00 Rob’s early radio and podcast advertising experience
35:46 Remembering Todd Cochrane
36:46 What advertisers now value in creators
37:00 Buying a personality across multiple platforms
38:17 Licensing creator content for paid campaigns
39:18 Brand safety, values, and commercial outcomes
45:54 Introducing the AMP measurement project
47:37 The 30-second versus 60-second play debate
48:00 Why a shared measurement language matters
51:38 AMP’s one-year mission and planned conclusion
52:25 Why the industry still needs to define a podcast
54:26 RSS, audio, video, and open distribution
56:00 HLS video and cross-platform attribution
57:12 Apple APIs compared with RSS alternative enclosures
59:08 Is RSS still essential to podcasting?
1:00:00 Why consumers no longer think about RSS
1:01:30 Dan’s “works with your eyes closed” podcast test
1:03:37 Why advertisers need a practical definition
1:04:35 AMP’s position on podcasts without RSS
1:05:49 The RSS education gap among newer creators
1:07:43 Building standards that grow the entire market
1:09:22 The IAB’s role in measurement adoption
1:11:18 Will personalities replace legacy media brands?
1:12:27 The possible rebirth of local media
1:13:42 AI content, personalization, and labeling
1:16:00 AMP’s contribution to a more scalable market
1:17:35 Closing remarks

Guest Links: Dan Granger, Founder and CEO, Oxford Road

Oxford Road: https://oxfordroad.com
Dan Granger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dangranger
Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting: https://www.ampaccords.com
Oxford Road Thought Leadership: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership
Oxford Road ORBIT: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership/orbit
Indie PaC Awards Announcement: https://oxfordroad.com/thought-leadership/this-weeks-influencer-introducing-the-inaugural-indie-pac-awards-tiktok-resumes-its-long-form-push-orbit-deems-niche-sports-vips-and-more

Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

AI Disclosure Note

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain mine. The discussion reflects the views expressed by my guest and me during the recorded conversation.

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Creators Become Media | Steve Wilson, Daylight Media and QCODE #676

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee and Guest Steve Wilson of Daylight Media & QCODEIn Episode #676 of the New Media Show, host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Steve Wilson, Chief Strategy Officer at Daylight Media and QCODE, for a wide-ranging conversation about the shift from producing a successful podcast to building a sustainable creator-led media company.

Creators no longer operate in a simple world of publishing one show to ONE place and relying mainly on advertising.

The strongest creators are building direct relationships with audiences across podcasts, video, short-form clips, newsletters, communities, subscriptions, live events, products, and services.

Podcasting remains one of the most effective long-form formats for building trust and repeated audience connection.

It is now one part of a larger media strategy shaped by video distribution, platform algorithms, artificial intelligence, audience ownership, and the growing power of individual personalities.

Steve brings a valuable perspective to this discussion. Before joining QCODE, he spent years working with Apple Podcasts and iTunes. At QCODE, he helped develop and distribute premium scripted audio series featuring talent including Matthew McConaughey, Demi Moore, and Rami Malek. QCODE has since expanded through Daylight Media, which provides distribution, monetization, technology, marketing, and business support for a broader network of creators.

Daylight currently works with roughly 70 creators and shows representing approximately 300 million monthly audio downloads and video views.

Across that network, video now accounts for a significant share of consumption, although the balance between audio and video differs considerably from show to show.

That difference is important.

Some creators have audiences that strongly favor YouTube and Spotify video. Other shows continue to perform primarily through audio.

For some programs, video may be valuable mainly as a discovery and social marketing layer rather than as the central product. Steve argues that creators should evaluate their format, audience, resources, and business goals before committing to a major video expansion.

Rob and Steve discuss Apple’s HLS video support and why it may become an important addition to the podcast distribution ecosystem. HLS can give creators greater flexibility in delivering video while maintaining many of the ownership and control principles associated with RSS.

The larger issue is whether creators retain access to their audience data, revenue information, advertising options, and the ability to move their shows between services.

The conversation also examines what makes a show work in both audio and video.

A strong video presentation may include thoughtful set design, lighting, visual storytelling, archival material, graphics, and physical objects that add context. The underlying audio still needs to stand on its own.

Listeners should not feel as though they are receiving an incomplete version of a show because they cannot see what is happening on screen.

Steve points to television, documentary production, and the work of filmmakers such as Ken Burns as useful references.

A show can begin with excellent audio storytelling and add visuals that deepen the experience without making the audio audience feel secondary.

There are also cases where the audio and video products should remain different. Scripted fiction uses sound to create a theater of the mind, allowing listeners to imagine the world and its characters. Turning that same property into a visual production may require a separate creative and business decision rather than a simple video version of the podcast.

We also explore the potential for long-form content on Instagram, the renewed interest in vertical video, and the growing market for microdramas. They also revisit Quibi and consider whether some earlier media ideas failed because the technology, audience behavior, or distribution environment was not yet ready for them.

The discussion then turns to one of the most important distinctions between podcasting and YouTube.

YouTube can generate large spikes around individual videos, but performance may vary widely from episode to episode.

Traditional RSS-based podcast audiences are often more consistent. That stability can make an audio podcast especially valuable to advertisers because future episode delivery and revenue are easier to forecast.

YouTube is highly effective for discovery. Podcast feeds are often stronger at developing recurring habits around a series. Successful media companies will increasingly need to understand the value of both.

Catalog discovery is another major opportunity. Podcasts and long-form videos can remain useful for years, but most platforms continue to prioritize newly released material. Steve argues that the industry needs better ways to help audiences find relevant episodes from existing catalogs based on subject, location, interest, and current context.

Daylight recently acquired Podcast Review, a long-running editorial publication focused on podcast reviews, interviews, recommendations, and lists. Steve sees independent editorial guidance as an important part of helping audiences find strong shows beyond what algorithms automatically recommend. Podcast Review continues to publish consumer-focused coverage while operating as a Daylight Media property with stated editorial standards and disclosures. 

Rob and Steve discuss whether the audience now has more influence over what qualifies as a podcast. Listeners and viewers increasingly use the word to describe a style of recurring, personality-led media rather than a specific technical delivery method.

Steve is less concerned with rigid format definitions. He compares the current debate to earlier questions about whether a streaming series released all at once should still be called television. Distribution formats change. Audience behavior changes. The most useful question is whether the content delivers the experience people expect from the show.

The second half of the episode focuses on creators becoming media companies.

Daylight works with creators at different stages, from established personalities such as Jon Stewart to growing shows entering advertising for the first time. Some partners need only ad sales support. Others are developing subscriptions, merchandise, tours, live events, networks, and additional shows.

Steve describes Daylight as an infrastructure layer that often works behind the scenes. The goal is to help the creator’s brand remain visible while providing the operational systems needed to grow. Daylight was launched as an expansion of QCODE’s creator-support work, with services covering distribution, audience development, marketing, technology, products, and monetization. 

Creator-first structure differs from an older media model in which the studio or network brand often controlled the relationship between talent and audience. Steve believes the next era will give creators more leverage, flexibility, and ownership. The companies that support them will need to prove their value without taking over the show’s identity.

Artificial intelligence is already affecting that work, although adoption varies widely. Some creators are using AI for research, transcription, artwork, editing, and production support. Others remain strongly opposed to it.

Steve does not see the choice as a complete acceptance or rejection of AI.

Each use case needs to be evaluated separately. Voice dubbing may help a creator correct a short line without having to re-record an entire session. Transcription can reduce production time. Synthetic performances or undisclosed manipulation may violate the audience’s expectations and trust.

Both agree that growing volumes of synthetic content may also increase the value of live, in-person, and clearly human experiences. 

Podcast tours, creator conferences, community gatherings, retreats, and interactive events allow audiences to participate in ways that digital platforms cannot fully reproduce. The opportunity may extend beyond recording a regular episode on stage.

Future creator events could include audience conversations, workshops, performances, shared activities, and experiences built around a particular community or interest.

This episode offers a clear view of where creator media is heading. A show can remain the center of the relationship, but the greater opportunity lies in building a flexible media business around the audience, protecting creator ownership, and selecting formats that serve the content rather than following every platform trend.

Topics Covered in This Episode

– Why successful creators are becoming media companies
– QCODE’s expansion into Daylight Media
– Audio and video consumption across the Daylight network
– Apple HLS video and creator-controlled distribution
– Why every show needs a different audio and video strategy
– Set design and visual storytelling for video shows
– Preserving a complete experience for audio listeners
– Scripted fiction, video adaptations, and intellectual property
– Instagram, vertical video, and microdramas
– YouTube discovery compared with RSS audience stability
– Evergreen content and podcast-catalog discovery
– Apple Podcasts editorial discovery
– Daylight Media’s acquisition of Podcast Review
– Whether audiences now define what a podcast is
– Revenue beyond advertising
– Subscriptions, merchandise, networks, touring, and events
– Daylight as a behind-the-scenes creator infrastructure company
– RSS, APIs, alternate enclosures, and platform control
– Creator access to audience and revenue data
– AI production tools and audience trust
– The growing value of live and human experiences

Chapter Time Stamp Markers:

00:00 Welcome to The New Media Show Episode 676
00:36 Creators are building full media businesses
02:24 Introducing Steve Wilson of Daylight Media and QCODE
03:05 How QCODE expanded into Daylight Media
04:23 From premium audio fiction to a creator network
05:16 Video now drives much of the network’s consumption
05:59 Apple HLS video and creator flexibility
08:27 Why there is no single audio-video strategy
09:03 What makes a show work in video?
10:44 Keeping audio listeners at the center
12:09 Higher production values and video set design
14:34 Theater of the mind and the value of audio
15:37 Short-form video and social-first podcasts
16:00 Could Instagram become a long-form video platform?
17:33 Microdramas, vertical storytelling, and the Quibi lesson
18:27 Audio-first creators and video anxiety
19:24 YouTube volatility compared with RSS stability
21:01 Tentpole episodes, long-form content, and audience habits
22:10 Evergreen catalog discovery
23:26 Apple Podcasts editorial discovery
25:00 Daylight Media acquires Podcast Review
25:46 Is the audience taking control of media definitions?
27:52 Does the technical definition of a podcast still matter?
31:03 Moving from a show to a media company
32:14 Daylight’s creator network and growth spectrum
32:54 Subscriptions, merchandise, tours, and new revenue
33:35 Daylight as a creator infrastructure layer
34:07 Why Daylight works behind the scenes
36:12 The future of video distribution and RSS
37:17 Alternate enclosures and location-based discovery
38:24 Creator ownership beyond RSS purity
39:59 Audio ads, video ads, platforms, and advertiser results
41:07 Independent creators gain more media power
42:07 How creators are using AI
43:02 Where AI can damage audience trust
45:05 AI voice dubbing and practical production uses
45:34 The return of live and human experiences
47:18 Podcast tours, conferences, and creator communities
49:18 Building more interactive creator events
50:51 Final thoughts on Daylight Media and QCODE
51:31 Where to find Daylight and QCODE shows
52:44 End of episode

Guest Links: Steve Wilson, Chief Strategy Officer, Daylight Media and QCODE

Daylight Media: https://daylightmedia.com
QCODE Media: https://qcodemedia.com
Podcast Review: https://podcastreview.org
Steve Wilson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenwilson7
Steve Wilson on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wilsonomics

Steve Wilson is currently Chief Strategy Officer at Daylight Media, with his work continuing across the QCODE and Daylight organizations.

Host, Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
Rob Greenlee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

About Trust Factor Lab

Trust Factor Lab helps creators, media leaders, executives, and brands build stronger audience trust across AI, video, podcasts, and creator-led media. Founded by Rob Greenlee, it focuses on content strategy, authority development, media positioning, AI transparency, audience growth, and business outcomes built through credibility.

AI Disclosure Note:

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and create chapter markers from the episode transcript. The editorial direction, final review, industry perspective, and responsibility for the published content remain mine. The discussion reflects the views expressed by my guest and me during the recorded conversation.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

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Podcast (audio): Play in new window | Download

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Podcasting Beyond the Download | Casey Adams, Listener.com #673

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Host, Rob Greenlee with #673 Guest Casey Adams, Lisener.comIn Episode 673 of the New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Casey Adams, founder and CEO of Listener.com and host of The Casey Adams Show, for a timely conversation about how podcasting, video, social content, advertising, and new media measurement are rapidly converging.

For more than 20 years, podcasting has relied heavily on RSS feeds, downloads, and audio-first measurement as the foundation of distribution and advertising value. That still matters, but the media environment around it has changed dramatically.

Shows now are distributed across Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, social video, newsletters, clips, livestreams, and direct audience communities. Audiences may call it all a podcast, even as the industry continues to debate its technical definition.

Casey brings a founder, creator, and investor perspective to the discussion. He started podcasting as a teenager, interviewing founders and entrepreneurs, and later built MediaKits.com before moving into podcast analytics with Listener.com. His current work focuses on helping modern publishers understand how a single episode performs across audio, long-form video, short-form clips, newsletters, and social platforms.

Rob and Casey explore why the term “podcast” now means different things to different groups. To many longtime industry professionals, podcasting still points back to RSS-based audio distribution. To many younger listeners and viewers, it means a format: a recurring show, often conversational, often video-enabled, and consumed wherever attention already exists.

The conversation centers on one of the biggest questions facing podcasting and new media right now:

How do you measure the true value of a show when the audience is no longer in one place?

Rob and Casey also discuss why the download can no longer carry the entire weight of podcast measurement.

A single episode may now generate value through an Apple Podcasts listen, a Spotify stream, a full YouTube view, a YouTube Short, a TikTok clip, a LinkedIn post, an X post, a newsletter mention, and a brand integration that travels across all of those surfaces. Each platform counts activity differently. Each platform has its own audience behavior. That makes reporting, sponsorship value, and campaign analysis more complex.

Casey explains Listener.com’s concept of episode clusters: grouping the full set of related content around one episode so publishers and advertisers can see the larger cross-platform reach and performance.

Instead of treating the audio file as the entire campaign, an episode cluster recognizes that one conversation can become long-form video, social clips, newsletter content, and multiple ad touchpoints.

We also discuss the rising influence of creator-led media companies. Examples like TBPN, Jomboy Media, Substack’s media activity, and venture-backed new media brands show how independent shows and creator-driven networks are increasingly competing with legacy media for attention, trust, and advertiser value.

The conversation explores why companies, CEOs, investors, and major brands now seek to control their own narrative through podcasts, owned shows, and trusted media relationships.

We also examine the advertising side of this shift. Brands want better campaign reporting, but they also want context. A host-read placement, a social clip, a full video episode, and a newsletter mention should not all be treated the same.

Modern publishers need tools that let them demonstrate the full value of their media ecosystem without flattening every metric into a single misleading number.

Meaning for creators. Being a podcaster may no longer fully describe the work involved. Modern show builders are becoming media operators. They need to understand production, audience behavior, platform distribution, brand positioning, analytics, content packaging, and trust. The technical meaning of podcasting still matters, but the audience meaning matters just as much now.

For creators, networks, agencies, and brands, Episode 673 offers a clear look at the next stage of podcasting: a media business built around trusted shows, distributed everywhere, measured more intelligently, and no longer limited to downloads.

Topics Covered in This Episode:

00:33 Why podcast measurement is changing
01:00 Moving beyond the download
01:44 RSS, streaming, and modern distribution challenges
02:42 Introducing Casey Adams of Listener.com
03:37 Casey Adams joins the show
04:17 What Listener.com is trying to solve
05:00 AI-powered analytics for modern podcast publishers
05:41 Casey’s podcasting origin story
06:30 Interviewing Larry King and learning from media legends
07:18 Larry King’s warning about rejecting new media trends
08:04 From MediaKits.com to Listener.com
09:15 Rob’s early podcasting and radio background
10:04 Why the industry struggles with change
11:00 Does Casey still consider himself a podcaster?
12:00 Podcasts as a format, not just a technology
13:10 YouTube, Spotify, and the expanded podcast ecosystem
14:34 Why modern shows must meet audiences where they are
15:37 The audience now defines what a podcast means
16:16 RSS audio vs the broader podcast perception
17:16 Apple HLS and the pressure on RSS
18:17 The industry needs to accept broader podcast usage
19:26 Younger audiences and podcast consumption habits
20:39 Larry King’s quote behind Listener.com
21:25 Why RSS is becoming less visible to creators and audiences
23:21 Respecting podcasting’s roots while accepting change
24:00 The Uber analogy for podcasting’s disruption
25:41 Journalists, creators, and independent media companies
27:49 Creator-led media and the rise of new media brands
28:33 Legacy media relevance is being challenged
30:13 TBPN and the new media company model
31:28 Treating a show like a full media ecosystem
32:36 Year-long sponsorships and category exclusivity
33:49 Why serious creators must think like media companies
35:19 How podcast analytics supports advertiser relationships
36:00 Silicon Valley’s renewed interest in “new media”
37:23 The pandemic pushed legacy media into creator workflows
38:16 Casey introduces the Listener.com platform
39:05 Jomboy Media and creator-led sports coverage
40:00 Episode clusters and cross-platform performance
41:00 Tracking long-form video, audio, and short-form clips
42:18 Episode reports for brands and publishers
43:05 Why every platform metric should be valued differently
44:00 How Listener.com supports campaign reporting
45:00 Aggregating metrics from multiple platforms
46:00 Audio, content, commerce, and newsletter integrations
47:00 Using AI to match clips to episodes
48:00 Listener AI and talking to your podcast data
49:23 Making podcast data easier to understand and share
50:00 Where podcast analytics and AI go next
51:28 AI can guide creators, but execution still wins
52:23 Using AI as a thought partner for content strategy
53:24 Why creators must keep improving their shows
54:47 What drives new media inspiration today?
56:01 Why companies want to control their narrative
57:15 CEOs, podcasts, and trusted long-form conversations
58:22 Substack, owned media, and creator platforms
59:21 New podcast metrics standards and platform conflicts
1:00:35 How different platforms count views and plays
1:02:16 Serving publishers while tracking industry standards
1:03:00 Why brands need better cross-platform campaign reports
1:04:28 Toward better host-read campaign reporting
1:05:14 How platform changes flow into Listener.com data
1:06:00 Why publishers should control their own data
1:07:00 Putting a show’s full value forward
1:08:03 Brand, trust, and modern podcast IP
1:09:34 OpenAI, TBPN, and strategic media investment
1:10:32 Why TBPN brought sponsors back
1:11:11 How media brands can help shift company narratives
1:12:15 New media as a strategic communications layer
1:14:00 Lessons from AI-generated podcast network messaging
1:14:46 The risk of platform influence after acquisition
1:16:00 Why the TBPN deal was more than a podcast deal
1:16:39 Will more companies buy or build media brands?
1:17:40 HubSpot, distribution, and trusted voices
1:18:08 Why creators must stay honest with audiences
1:19:40 Authenticity and audience trust in sponsorships
1:20:05 Casey’s closing thoughts on podcasting and new media
1:20:34 Rob’s closing view on podcasting as one lane in new media
1:21:41 How publishers can work with Listener.com
1:22:43 Networks, independent shows, and Listener.com’s go-to-market
1:23:56 Closing remarks and where to find the show

Guest Links: Casey Adams, Founder and CEO, Listener.com

Listener.com: https://listener.com
Casey Adams Show & Website: https://www.caseyadams.com
The Casey Adams Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-casey-adams-show/id1328795944
Casey Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casey-adams-430b3114a/
Casey Adams on X: https://x.com/CaseyAdams
Casey Adams on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casey/

Host: Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com

Personal / AI Disclosure Note

I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest’s. This article reflects my editorial direction and the substance of the conversation.

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Can Creator Economy Build a Better Podcasting? | Sam Sethi, TrueFans #671

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Rob Greenlee and Guest Sam Sethi of TruFansIn this episode of The New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Sam Sethi, founder of TrueFans and co-host of the Podnews Weekly Review.

They had a wide-ranging conversation about the future of podcasting inside the larger creator economy.

Podcasting helped create the independent creator movement through RSS, niche audiences, direct publishing, and long-form content that builds audience trust.

Today’s creators are building broader businesses around video, memberships, newsletters, live events, merchandise, premium content, clips, community, and direct fan relationships.

So, can the creator economy help build a better, more sustainable podcasting industry?

Rob and Sam explore why podcasting can no longer think only in terms of feeds, files, downloads, and ad impressions. They discuss the rise of creator portals, the importance of owning the relationship with audiences, and how platforms such as Patreon, Substack, Beehiiv, YouTube, Spotify, and Apple are changing creator expectations.

The conversation also examines whether advertising is becoming less central to the creator business model, and how subscriptions, premium content, micropayments, stablecoins, and value-for-value models could create new ways to share revenue among creators, listening apps, platforms, and even audiences.

Sam shares his perspective on HLS streaming, watch time and listen time analytics, activity streams, super fans, publisher feeds, and “super feeds” that can connect audio, video, events, merchandise, blogs, and community into a more portable, creator-owned media presence.

Rob and Sam also dig into the impact of AI on podcasting: AI-generated shows, human engagement as a discovery signal, AI bots scraping media, the rising need for clear content licensing, and the tension between making content available to AI discovery systems while protecting creator rights and value.

This episode is a deep look at where open RSS, creator ownership, platform control, AI discovery, video, monetization, and audience relationships may be heading next.

Topics covered in this episode include:

• The evolution of podcasting into a broader creator-led media business
• Why creators need direct relationships with fans, not just platform reach
• Creator portals – memberships, newsletters, live events, merchandise, and premium content
• Whether ad-supported podcasting is becoming less important
• HLS streaming, listen-time and watch-time measurement, and better advertising accountability
• Micropayments, value-for-value, stablecoins, and new revenue-sharing models
• Activity streams, super fans, community engagement, and audience signals
• AI-generated podcasts, discovery, AI bots, and licensing creator content
• Publisher feeds, super feeds, playlists, and collective buying power for independent creators
• Open RSS, data portability, proprietary platforms, and the future of media distribution

The New Media Show is a human-hosted and guested conversation about the future of creator-led digital media, including podcasting, video, live streaming, AI, audience trust, discovery, monetization, platforms, and the changing relationship between creators and their communities.

Watch the video and audio editions below and on YouTube; listen to the audio edition in your favorite podcast app; watch the video edition in Apple Podcasts; and visit NewMediaShow.com and RobGreenlee.com for more episodes and industry conversations.

Guest Links: Sam Sethi, Founder/CEO, TrueFans

TrueFans: https://truefans.fm
Sam Sethi on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/samsethi
Sam Sethi on TrueFans: https://truefans.fm/fans/sam
Podnews Weekly Review: https://weekly.podnews.net
Sam Sethi on Podnews Weekly Review: https://weekly.podnews.net/1538779/contributors/411-sam-sethi

Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links

Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com/
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/

About the Host/Author:
Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair, a global new-media leader who bridges podcasting’s human roots and its AI-driven future. As founder of Trust Factor Lab and host of the New Media Show and Spoken Human, Rob helps creators start, grow, monetize, and future-proof their content. He has held leadership roles at Microsoft, Spreaker, Libsyn, StreamYard, Podbean, and PodcastOne, and serves as Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame.

Personal / AI Disclosure Note:
I used AI tools to help organize and edit this video, episode description, and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest’s. I have been working in podcasting, digital media, and platform adoption for more than two decades, and this article reflects my own position and editorial direction.

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Podcasting Is Not Broken. It Is Becoming Something Bigger

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

New Media Show with Rob Greenlee - NewMediaShow.comBy Rob Greenlee

I do not believe podcasting is broken.

I also do not believe podcasting is outdated.

But I understand why some people are starting to say that. The medium is changing so fast right now that it can feel like the old definitions no longer fit what audiences and creators are actually doing.

That does not mean podcasting is dying. It means podcasting has reached a major inflection point.

For audiences, podcasts have become one of the main media habits in everyday life. People listen while driving, walking, working, exercising, relaxing, and doing all the things that make audio such a powerful companion medium. That part has not gone away. Audio remains deeply personal, flexible, and trusted.

But for many creators, the word “podcaster” no longer fully describes what they are building.

They are making shows.

They are producing conversations, video episodes, clips, livestreams, newsletters, communities, events, and social content. The podcast is still part of the system, but it is no longer always the whole identity.

That is the big shift.

The traditional definition of a podcast as an audio-first, RSS-distributed show remains important. It is the foundation of the medium. It gave podcasting its openness, portability, and independence. But that definition is increasingly becoming one part of a larger video-first creator strategy.

This is where some tension comes in.

Audio-first creators will continue to have large audiences. Many of the most trusted and successful shows will remain primarily audio-driven. There will always be room for audio-first storytelling, interviews, news, education, comedy, and commentary. Audio is not going away.

But audio-first alone may no longer be the path to the largest possible audience.

Discovery has shifted. Audience behavior has shifted. Monetization has shifted. Younger audiences often discover shows through video clips, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other social platforms before they ever subscribe to an RSS feed or follow a show in a traditional podcast app.

For many people, the first experience of a “podcast” is now a video moment.

That does not make it less of a podcast. It means the audience definition has expanded beyond the industry definition.

This is why I keep saying we are moving from “podcasts” into a broader “shows” era.

The show is the core intellectual property. The show is the brand. The show is the relationship with the audience. Audio, video, clips, newsletters, and community are all distribution expressions of that show.

That shift has real consequences for the entire industry.

Hosting companies have to think beyond audio file delivery. Apps have to think beyond audio playback. Ad platforms have to think beyond downloads. Measurement companies have to think beyond separate audio and video reports. Creators have to think beyond a single format and a single feed.

This is especially true as HLS video streaming begins to scale inside podcasting.

The Apple Podcasts shift toward HLS video streaming is a major signal. Video podcasting is no longer just about uploading a large MP4 file or posting a version on YouTube. It is moving toward modern streaming infrastructure, adaptive playback, dynamic ad possibilities, and more seamless switching between listening and viewing.

That means some of what we have historically called audio-only consumption may increasingly be delivered through video-enabled HLS streaming systems. A person may listen to the audio from a video podcast stream. They may start with video, switch to audio, or never look at the screen at all. The content experience becomes more fluid.

That creates a major measurement challenge.

The industry cannot keep treating audio and video metrics as if they live in separate worlds. Creators need to know the show’s total reach and value, not just the performance of a single format in a single app.

Downloads, streams, plays, views, watch time, listen time, completion, retention, subscribers, followers, and engagement all need to be consolidated into a single framework.

Right now, too much of the industry is still measuring yesterday’s format while the audience is already consuming tomorrow’s show.

This is not just a technical issue. It is a business issue.

If a creator has 50,000 audio downloads, 100,000 YouTube views, 25,000 Spotify video plays, 15,000 Apple video streams, and millions of short-form impressions, what is the actual size and value of that show?

The old answer was to separate all of that into different buckets.

The new answer has to be more unified.

Brands and sponsors want to understand total audience impact. Creators want to understand where trust, attention, and revenue are being created. Platforms want to prove value. Hosting companies want to stay relevant. Measurement providers want to remain credible.

That requires merged and consolidated metrics.

Podcasting has always struggled with measurement consistency, even in the audio-only era. Now video makes that challenge more complicated, but also more urgent.

The industry needs a better way to measure shows across formats, not just files across feeds.

This does not mean we abandon RSS. It does not mean we abandon audio. It does not mean every creator has to become a YouTuber or video personality.

It means podcasting has to evolve its infrastructure, language, and business model to align with what audiences are already doing.

The audience does not care whether the industry calls something a podcast, a video podcast, a show, a stream, or creator media.

They ONLY care whether it is useful, entertaining, trustworthy, and available where they already spend time.

That is the part we should pay attention to.

Podcasting is expanding.

It is expanding into video. It is expanding into streaming. It is expanding into social/YouTube discovery. It is expanding into creator-led media brands. It is expanding into AI-assisted and generated production and distribution. It is expanding into a world where the show matters more than the format.

The danger is not that podcasting is outdated.

The danger is that the industry keeps defending an old definition while the audience has already moved into a broader one.

The future of podcasting will still include audio-first shows, RSS feeds, open distribution, and traditional podcast apps. Those pieces still matter. But the growth edge of the medium is moving toward video-enabled, multi-format, cross-platform show experiences.

The inflection point.

– The creators who understand this will not stop being podcasters. They will become stronger show builders.

– The companies that understand this will not abandon podcasting. They will build the infrastructure for the next version.

– And the industry that understands this will stop asking whether podcasting is broken and start asking a better question:

– How do we preserve what made podcasting powerful while building the modern show-based media ecosystem it is clearly becoming?

About the Author

Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair, a global new media leader who bridges podcasting’s human roots with its AI-driven future. As founder of Trust Factor Lab and host of the “New Media Show” and “Spoken Human”, Rob helps creators start, grow, monetize, and future-proof their content. He’s held leadership roles at Microsoft, Spreaker, Libsyn, StreamYard, and PodcastOne, and serves as Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame. Learn more at RobGreenlee.com and join the Trust Factor Lab Creator/Podcast Services.

Personal note: I used AI tools to help organize this article and hand-edited it; the views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine. I have been working in podcasting and platform adoption for more than two decades, and this article reflects my own position. The original word choice was mine, and so is the clarification.

 

Why “Fringe” Was the Wrong Word and What I Actually Meant About Podcasting 2.0

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

By Rob Greenlee
New Media Show with Rob Greenlee - NewMediaShow.comThis article provides context about my comments on New Media Show episode 660 with Libsyn CEO Brendan Monaghan, where we discussed Podcasting 2.0, RSS tag adoption, and the gap between innovation and mainstream platform implementation.
During my recent interview conversation with the Libsyn CEO, I used the word “fringe” when discussing Podcasting 2.0 RSS extension tag ideas. That comment in an extended audio clip was played and discussed on “Podnews Weekly Review“, and understandably, it raised concerns in parts of the podcasting 2.0 community, including Dave Jones and Adam Curry on the Podcasting 2.0 podcast.  Let me say this clearly. That was not the right word for me to use, and I regret saying it that way. Not because I am backing away from the broader point I was trying to make, but because the word itself does not reflect how I actually view the work happening in the Podcasting 2.0 and open RSS ecosystem.
The comment came out quickly in a live discussion and did not carry the full context I intended.
What I was trying to describe is something I have repeatedly seen said over the past two decades working with large platforms, hosting companies, and media organizations: there is a real difference between something that is not widely adopted yet and something that is not valuable.
Podcasting 2.0 Innovation Has Real Value
Podcasting 2.0 innovations are valuable. RSS namespace expansion, new tags, and experimentation around monetization, identity, transcripts, funding, and distribution all matter. This is where much of the real innovation in podcasting is happening.
At the same time, many of these capabilities have been around for several years, in some cases for close to five years. That historical context matters. My comment was not about the value of the ideas themselves. It was about the pace and pattern of adoption, especially among larger platforms.
When I used the word “fringe,” I was referring to the broader set of emerging and evolving tag ideas within the Podcasting 2.0 initiative.
There are many tags and concepts at different stages of maturity, market fit, timing, and implementation. Not all of them have broad agreement or adoption, even within standards-focused efforts like the Podcast Standards Project. From a product and platform perspective, this creates a spectrum of adoption rather than one unified standard that everyone has fully embraced.
What I Was Trying to Say
What I meant is that market fit and timing play a major role in what gets adopted at scale. Larger podcasting platforms tend to move more deliberately. Their decisions are shaped by user experience, engineering resources, monetization models, product stability, support complexity, and business priorities.
That often means only a subset of new capabilities gets integrated into mainstream products at any given time. That has been the pattern over the past several years. But it is also important to say this pattern is changing.
Momentum Started Very Slow, But Is Building
Over the past year or so, we have started to see real momentum around some Podcasting 2.0 tags and capabilities. More platforms are experimenting. More tools are supporting them. More creators are becoming aware of what is possible and how these features can be used in real workflows.
That has been great to see
I believe we will continue to see more adoption of certain RSS tags as platforms, tools, and creators find clearer ways to integrate them into everyday use.
Some Tags Are Seeing More Adoption
You can already see this progression in parts of the ecosystem.
Tags like transcript, chapters, and person have seen meaningful adoption because they provide immediate and understandable value. The Alternative Enclosure tag is being more widely adopted across platforms, too. They improve accessibility, discovery, context, and creator attribution.  The funding tag has gained traction within parts of the ecosystem, especially among creators and platforms exploring alternative monetization models. The value tag, which supports value-for-value and streaming payment models, has been adopted within specific apps and communities, though it has struggled more recently and has not yet become mainstream across larger platforms. Other tags and ideas are still at an earlier stage. Some are being tested. Some are evolving. Some are still looking for the right use case that will drive broader adoption. That is what I meant by a spectrum of innovation.
Innovation and Adoption Are Not the Same Thing
Podcasting operates across two layers simultaneously. 
There is an innovation layer, where developers, independent platforms, and forward-thinking creators create and test new ideas. Then there is a platform layer, where those ideas are evaluated, prioritized, supported, and integrated into products used by millions of people.  The gap between those two layers is where much of the tension comes from.
I have seen this pattern many times. Podcasting itself began outside the mainstream.
Mobile listening took time to become the default. Video podcasting has gone through multiple cycles before finding its current role. Programmatic advertising in audio took years to mature.  Innovation usually moves faster than adoption. Adoption follows when user demand, product fit, creator benefit, and business alignment come together.
That is where many Podcasting 2.0 capabilities have been.
My View of Podcasting 2.0 and the Podcast Standards Project
I also want to be clear that Podcasting 2.0 and the Podcast Standards Project are not the same thing. They overlap in some areas, but they do not necessarily embrace every tag or idea in the same way.
That is part of the larger point.
When standards-oriented efforts evaluate which capabilities to support, it shows that this is not simply a question of innovation versus resistance. It is about maturity, usefulness, interoperability, timing, and market fit.  That is the context I was trying to convey, though I did not do so well at the time.
I Respect the Podcasting 2.0 Community
So when I used the word “fringe,” I was trying to describe how some organizations have historically perceived ideas that had not yet reached scale or product integration. But I understand how that word sounded dismissive of Podcasting 2.0, and that is not how I really see it.

I respect and appreciate the innovation and work happening through PodcastIndex.org, Podcasting 2.0, and the broader open podcasting community, including the work and advocacy of Adam Curry, Dave Jones, Daniel J. Lewis, and many others.

The opportunity now is to build on the momentum emerging and move the most valuable ideas toward broader adoption. That means making these capabilities easier to use, improving listener experiences, aligning them with sustainable business models, and demonstrating clear value at scale. That is how innovation moves from experimentation into everyday use.
My Role in the Conversation
I do not want to frame this as one side versus another. I am focused on helping connect what is being built with what is actually being adopted and used at scale.
That is the conversation we are having every week on the “New Media Show“. Join us LIVE on Weds, 3 pm PST/6 pm EST, or on demand in all the podcast apps and live on YouTube.com/@robgreenlee, LinkedIn.com, Facebook.com, and X.com
So, yes, I regret the word “Fringe” I used.  But I stand by the broader point that there has been a gap between innovation and adoption in podcasting over the past several years. The good news is that momentum is building, and that gap is starting to close.  That is where the real opportunity is for all of us in this industry.

About the Author
Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee and Chair, a global new media leader who bridges podcasting’s human roots with its AI-driven future. As founder of Trust Factor Lab and host of the “New Media Show” and “Spoken Human”, Rob helps creators start, grow, monetize, and future-proof their content. He’s held leadership roles at Microsoft, Spreaker, Libsyn, StreamYard, and PodcastOne, and serves as Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame. Learn more at RobGreenlee.com and join the Trust Factor Lab Creator/Podcast Services.

Personal note: I used AI tools to help organize this article and hand-edited it; the views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine. I have been working in podcasting and platform adoption for more than two decades, and this article reflects my own position. The original word choice was mine, and so is the clarification.

 

Can Indie Podcasters and Media Creators Still Win? | Dave Jackson #661

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

On Episode 661 of The New Media Show, host Rob Greenlee, 2017 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame, and longtime new media executive, is joined by Dave Jackson, 2018 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee, founder of School of Podcasting, and Head of Podcasting at Podpage.com, for a deep conversation about whether independent podcasters and media creators can still win in today’s rapidly changing creator economy.

This episode centers on a question many creators are quietly asking right now:

Can indie podcasters still grow, monetize, and build trust in a market being reshaped by video, AI, platform control, and professionalized media production?

Rob and Dave discuss the recent combination of Podpage and School of Podcasting, why podcast education matters more than ever, and how websites, email lists, communities, video, RSS, and AI-assisted workflows are becoming essential parts of a creator’s survival strategy. Dave joined Podpage as Head of Podcasting in 2024, and School of Podcasting has been helping creators launch, grow, and monetize podcasts since 2005. 

The conversation also moves into some of the biggest issues facing podcasting and new media in 2026, including AI-generated shows, human voice and video cloning, creator burnout, YouTube’s influence on podcast identity, Apple’s HLS video podcast direction, and why human trust may become the most valuable asset creators have left.

Rob and Dave bring decades of experience to this discussion.

Both have seen podcasting shift through multiple technology waves, from the early RSS era to platform consolidation, video podcasting, AI tools, and the rise of creator-led media. That history makes this episode a practical and honest look at what indie creators need to do now to stay relevant, trusted, and discoverable.

What does this episode cover?

Can independent podcasters still succeed in a noisier, more competitive market?

What does “winning” even mean now: downloads, money, trust, community, authority, or sustainability?

Why the Podpage and School of Podcasting connection matters for podcast education and creator websites

Why podcasters need a home base beyond social platforms and YouTube

How AI is changing show notes, images, writing, research, production, and creator workflows

Why AI-generated content should not all be treated as spam, but fraud and abuse must be addressed

How human storytelling, lived experience, and trust help creators stand apart from AI content

Why video is becoming harder to ignore, but audio-only creators should not panic

How YouTube has changed public perception of what a podcast is

What Apple’s HLS video direction could mean for audio, video, RSS, and creator workflows

Why websites, email lists, communities, and audience ownership still matter

How indie creators can avoid burnout while adapting to new media expectations

Key Takeaways:

Indie podcasters can still win, but the definition of winning has changed.

Creators need more than a microphone and a media host. They need clarity, a trusted point of view, a website, a distribution plan, and a realistic path to audience growth.

AI is not going away. The smartest creators will learn how to use it without losing their human voice.

Video will continue reshaping podcasting, but not every creator has to become a full-scale video studio overnight.

Human-created content still has a powerful advantage when it is rooted in story, experience, transparency, and trust.

Websites are becoming more important again because creators need a stable home base that is not controlled by a single platform.

Podcast education matters because the barrier to starting is low, but the barrier to standing out is much higher.

Guest

Dave Jackson
Founder, School of Podcasting
Head of Podcasting, Podpage.com
2018 Podcast Hall of Fame inductee
Author of Profit From Your Podcast

Dave Jackson has been helping creators launch and improve podcasts since 2005 through the School of Podcasting. He is also Head of Podcasting at Podpage, where he supports podcasters using websites as a central hub for discovery, audience ownership, and long-term growth. (The School of Podcasting)

Guest links:
School of Podcasting: https://www.schoolofpodcasting.com/
Podpage: https://www.podpage.com/
Dave Jackson: https://davidjackson.org/
Podcast Consultant: https://www.podcastconsultant.com/

Host

Rob Greenlee
Host, The New Media Show
Podcast Hall of Fame inductee
Chairperson, Podcast Hall of Fame
Founder, Trust Factor Lab and Adore Network
Co-Founder, Passion Struck Network

Host and show links:
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com/
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/
Adore Network: https://adorenetwork.com/
Trust Factor Lab: https://trustfactorlab.com/
Passion Struck Network: https://passionstrucknetwork.com/
Rob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee/

Bottom Line in this Episode:

This episode answers a major creator economy question for 2026: Can indie podcasters and independent media creators still compete as podcasting becomes more professional, more video-driven, and more influenced by AI?

Rob Greenlee and Dave Jackson explain why the answer is yes, but only if creators evolve. The winning indie creator now needs a clear purpose, a strong human voice, trusted expertise, a discoverable website, owned audience channels, thoughtful use of AI, and a strategy that works across audio, video, search, social, and community.

The episode is especially useful for podcasters, YouTube creators, podcast consultants, media educators, creator economy leaders, podcast hosting companies, AI media startups, and independent showrunners trying to understand the next phase of podcasting and new media.

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Libsyn’s Next Chapter: Podcast Hosting, Video, Monetization, RSS and API | Brendan Monaghan #660

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

“Podcast episode hosting used to be simple. You uploaded an audio file, generated an RSS feed, and distributed your show everywhere. That model still matters, but it is no longer enough for the modern creator economy.”

In this Episode 660 of The Live New Media Show, from April 22nd, 2026, Host Podcast Hall of Famer and Former Libsyn VP Rob Greenlee shares a screen and microphone with Brendan Monaghan, President and CEO of Libsyn, to explore how podcast hosting is changing and what creators should expect from platforms in 2026 and beyond.

This conversation gets to the heart of a major shift happening across podcasting and new media.

Hosting companies are no longer judged only by whether they can deliver a clean RSS feed and reliable file storage. Creators now expect monetization, analytics, video support, workflow efficiency, AI-assisted publishing, broader distribution, and real help with audience growth.

That larger shift frames the entire discussion between Rob and Brendan.

Brendan explains that Libsyn still carries the legacy of being one of podcasting’s earliest and most important hosting platforms, but the company is now operating in a far more complex environment.

Brendan points to Libsyn’s evolution from a technology-led hosting company into a broader creator platform that includes advertising and monetization infrastructure, especially after the company acquired businesses such as AdvertiseCast and Pair Networks. He argues that the modern hosting business must combine publishing, monetization, measurement, and simplicity for creators at every stage of growth.

Rob pushes the conversation further by asking the bigger industry question:

What should a podcast hosting company become now? That leads into a wide-ranging discussion about platform aggregation, creator workflows, newsletters, live events, merchandise, and the growing expectation that creators should be able to manage more of their media business from one place. Brendan makes the case that the future belongs to companies that can keep creators at the center while simplifying the growing complexity around distribution and monetization.

A major part of the episode focuses on AI.

Brendan breaks AI into three areas: how Libsyn uses it internally as a business, how AI can assist creators with production and publishing workflows, and how fully AI-generated content may affect the medium’s future.

Rob adds a deeper perspective by arguing that AI podcasting is already becoming more competitive than many in the industry want to admit. The two discuss whether the market will ultimately decide what AI content succeeds, why “AI slop” may be too broad a label, and why trust and disclosure may become much more important as synthetic media becomes harder to distinguish from human-created work.

The episode also dives into one of the most important strategic tensions in podcasting right now: RSS versus API publishing.

Rob and Brendan both acknowledge that most creators care more about simple distribution than the underlying protocol, but they also recognize that this shift has major implications for openness, platform control, and long-term creator independence.

Their exchange about Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and the shift toward more controlled video delivery models reflects a broader market reality: creators increasingly want to be everywhere, but the mechanics of getting there are becoming more fragmented and platform-specific.

Another strong section of the conversation centers on video.

Brendan says Libsyn intends to be a leader in video, while Rob raises a practical concern many creators are just beginning to feel: a show that works well on YouTube may not automatically translate well to an audio-first experience, and a show built for traditional audio may not fully satisfy video-driven discovery environments. That raises the possibility that creators will need to think more deliberately about format, audience expectations, and whether a single production workflow can truly serve all platforms equally well.

The conversation becomes especially valuable when the two discuss metrics:

Apple’s HLS direction, and what streaming-style delivery might mean for podcast measurement and advertising. They point to a future in which the industry may move closer to actual listening signals rather than relying so heavily on download-based assumptions. If that happens, it could affect CPMs, ad sales, programmatic video advertising, and the broader economics of the medium.

Rob also frames one of the biggest unresolved questions in new media today:

If AI-generated shows become easier, faster, and more polished, what will human creators need to do to remain distinct and trusted?

The answer that emerges from this episode is not panic. It is focus, transparency, stronger format thinking, and a deeper commitment to serving audiences with clarity and value. That makes this episode less about Libsyn alone and more about the future structure of podcasting itself.

Topic Chapters and Timestamps
00:00 Podcast hosting is no longer simple
01:00 What creators now expect from hosting platforms
02:00 Brendan Monaghan introduction and background
03:00 Why Libsyn’s legacy still matters
05:00 Hosting, publishing, monetization, and measurement
07:00 How Libsyn expanded its monetization business
08:00 Why creators should not need to leave Libsyn to scale
09:00 How monetization changed podcasting
10:00 Lowering barriers for creators to earn revenue
12:00 What the future hosting platform should become
13:00 Newsletters, live events, merchandise, and creator tools
15:00 AI and creator workflows
16:00 Brendan’s three-bucket view of AI
18:00 AI-generated content and the “AI slop” debate
20:00 Why the market may decide what AI content wins
23:00 RSS versus API publishing
25:00 Simplicity and multi-platform distribution
26:00 Why RSS matters less to end users now
28:00 Open versus closed ecosystems
29:00 RSS innovation and slow adoption
31:00 Apple HLS and changing audio-video delivery
32:00 Platform control and the walled garden debate
41:00 Measurement, streaming, and actual listening data
43:00 Programmatic video ads and creative formats
45:00 Why video creators may need to think more like audio creators
47:00 Can AI help bridge the gap between formats?
49:00 Audio loyalty versus video momentum
50:00 The growing pressure on creators to win everywhere
51:00 AI Algorithms, the first audience for human content
53:00 Are AI-generated shows driving growth?
55:00 AI clone content and rising competition for humans
56:00 Why AI labeling may become essential
59:00 What Libsyn will focus on over the next 24 months
01:01:00 Audio, video, audience growth, and execution
01:03:00 Staying focused on core creator needs
01:05:00 Closing thoughts

This episode answers key industry questions that creators, executives, and media strategists are increasingly asking:
-What is Libsyn doing next under Brendan Monaghan?
-How is podcast hosting changing in 2026?
-Will video become a required part of podcast distribution?
-What does Apple’s HLS move mean for audio and video podcasting?
-Is RSS still the future, or are APIs taking over?
-How will AI-generated content affect podcasting, trust, and monetization?
-What should creators expect from modern hosting platforms now?
-Those questions are directly addressed in this discussion, making this episode highly relevant to search, social discovery, AI answer engines, and recommendation surfaces.

Guest and Show Links
Brendan Monaghan, CEO of Libsyn
https://Libsyn.com

Host Rob Greenlee and Show Links
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com/
Trust Factor Lab: https://trustfactorlab.com/
Adore Creator Network: https://adorenetwork.com/
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/
Rob Greenlee YouTube: https://youtube.com/@robgreenlee
Rob Greenlee LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/robgreenlee
Rob Greenlee Instagram: https://instagram.com/robwgreenlee

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Podcasting’s Multi-Format Future | Sharon Taylor #659

~ Rob Greenlee ~ Leave a comment

Podcasting is entering a new phase, and this episode goes straight into the infrastructure, business models, and platform shifts shaping what comes next.

On episode 659 of The New Media Show, Host and Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee shares the microphone with Sharon Taylor, Chief Revenue Officer at Triton Digital (Spreaker & Omny Studio), for a deep conversation about where the podcasting market is heading right now.

Sharon brings years of experience from Omny Studio, Triton Digital, and Spreaker, making her one of the best people to help unpack what is changing across hosting, monetization, video, AI, advertiser demand, and measurement.

We talk through why podcasting is not simply becoming video-first, even as video becomes a bigger part of how shows are discovered and monetized.

Sharon makes a strong case that audio remains at the center of the medium, but the future is clearly becoming more multi-format. That means creators, publishers, and platforms need to think differently about how they distribute content, measure audience behavior, and build sustainable business models for both audio and video.

A big part of this conversation focuses on Triton Digital’s role in the market today and why its combination of Omny Studio, Spreaker, and broader ad tech infrastructure makes it an important player in podcasting’s next chapter.

Sharon explains the unique roots of Omny Studio as a platform built for large-scale broadcast and enterprise publishing needs, while Spreaker helped pioneer early podcast programmatic monetization for creators. That combination gives Triton a unique perspective on both professional publishing and creator-driven growth.

We also spend time on Apple’s HLS video move and what it may mean for podcasting’s future. Sharon shares how Triton had already been preparing for a broader video environment and why Apple’s support for HLS is such a meaningful shift.

We discuss how HLS could improve flexibility around delivery, ad insertion, and measurement, while still raising important questions about RSS, open distribution, and whether major platforms may slowly pull podcasting into more platform-specific publishing models over time.

Another major topic in this episode is trust.

From programmatic advertising to AI-generated content to labeling and transparency, Sharon and I explore how podcasting can continue to grow without losing the authentic connection that made the medium valuable in the first place.

We both agree that podcasting still has enormous strength as an audio-led medium, but the industry is now balancing openness, innovation, and monetization in ways that will define the next few years.

This is a wide-ranging and important discussion for anyone watching the evolution of podcasting, video, ad tech, platform power, and the future of open media.

Topics covered

– Why Triton Digital matters in podcasting right now
– Sharon Taylor’s path from Omny Studio to Triton CRO
– What Triton is seeing in audio versus video audience behavior
– Why podcasting is becoming multi-format, not simply video-first
– How Omny Studio and Spreaker fit different parts of the publishing market
– What Apple’s HLS video move changes for publishers and hosting platforms
– Why advertiser confidence and better measurement matter more than ever
– The future of RSS, open podcasting, and platform fragmentation
– How AI-generated content is affecting publishing growth and industry trust
– Where Sharon sees the next big opportunities for podcast growth

Guest

Sharon Taylor is the Chief Revenue Officer at Triton Digital. She was appointed to the CRO role in August 2025 after helping lead Triton’s podcast and content delivery efforts. Before joining Triton, Sharon was CEO of Omny Studio and played a key role in building it into one of the leading enterprise podcast platforms before its acquisition by Triton Digital.

Triton Digital: https://www.tritondigital.com/
Spreaker: https://www.spreaker.com/
Omny Studio: https://omnystudio.com/

Host

Rob Greenlee is a 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer, Chairperson of the Podcast Hall of Fame, and leader behind Trust Factor Lab and Trust Creators Community at M3Linked.

New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com/
Rob Greenlee: https://robgreenlee.com/
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com/
Trust Creators Community: https://m3linked.com/

Supporters:

Get a $10 StreamYard Video Recording and Live Streaming tool Discount using this LINK – https://streamyard.com/pal/c/5606177711325184

Podcasting pros use Podpage – Build a podcast or video show website that updates itself and showcases your show beautifully. Start for just $12/month! –>podpage.com?via=adore

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