Todd Cochrane is the Founder of Geek News Central and host of the Geek News Central Podcast. He is a Podcast Hall of Fame Inductee and was one of the very first podcasters in 2004. He wrote the first book on podcasting, and did many of the early Podcast Advertising deals in the podcasting space. He does two other podcasts in addition to Geek News Central. The New Media Show and Podcast Legends.
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Rob and Todd discuss in detail some of the behind the scenes for the Podcast Hall of Fame, Todd’s report on CES 2024 and some of the products he says and of course, our upcoming attendance of Podfest in Orlando
New Media Show @ Podfest – Thursday, Jan 25th 3:30-5:00 pm est (Inside Expo Hall)
Summary:
In this podcast episode, Todd and Rob start with a light-hearted conversation, with Todd returning to the studio after attending the Consumer Electronics Show (CES). They discuss Todd’s experiences at CES, highlighting his observations of various innovative products and technologies. Todd shares details about health tech, AI integrations, and unique gadgets like a back-facing camera for personal safety, and other AI-driven and soundproofing technologies.
They then shift the conversation to the Podcast Hall of Fame, focusing on the upcoming induction ceremony. They delve into the selection process for inductees, discussing the importance of balancing recognition between well-known podcasters and significant behind-the-scenes podcast industry contributors. They address the challenges in organizing the Hall of Fame, including excluding politics in the selection process, handling the backlog of nominees, and ensuring inclusivity and representation of the entire podcasting community.
The financial aspects of the event are also discussed, including ticket sales and the need to build support and momentum for the Hall of Fame. Todd and Rob encourage listeners to support the event, highlighting its significance in honoring contributors to the podcasting field.
Towards the end of the podcast, they plan their live session at the upcoming Podfest Expo, guests, and the show’s format. They conclude by emphasizing the importance of the Podcast Hall of Fame in recognizing the diverse range of contributions to the podcasting industry and encouraging listeners to support the event.
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On the New Media Show we delve into the exciting details of the 2024 Podcast Hall of Fame Inductees. This episode is not just an announcement; it’s an immersive preview of the podcasting world’s most awaited event that will be held live In-Person Induction Ceremony on Jan 26, 2024 @ 7 pm EST / 4 pm PST Live Streamed: YouTube.com/@libsyn With host: Dr. Drew .
Special Guest on today’s show Dave Jackson, Podcast Hall of Famer Doug Kaye, A new 2024 inductee renowned for pioneering work with the Conversations Network Exclusive insights into the 2024 Podcast Hall of Fame inductees Behind-the-scenes look at the upcoming induction ceremony Engaging in conversations with podcasting’s most influential figures Join us for this episode filled with revelations, discussions, and celebrations of podcasting excellence.
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Todd and Rob discuss the various aspects of the podcasting industry, and its future trajectory is explored. The discussion begins with Todd and Rob addressing the current state and potential future of podcasting, emphasizing challenges such as the absurd proposition of abandoning RSS and the risk of exploitation by large corporations. They stress the importance of creating superior content and adopting a realistic approach to podcasting.
Further delving into the industry’s challenges, they consider content distribution, target audience, and the intricacies of starting an online show. They advise focusing on individual show goals and celebrating milestones, regardless of audience size. The discussion extends to investment trends in content creation and the cultural shift towards careers as influencers among younger generations.
The “podcast industrial complex” concept is introduced, highlighting its focus on advertising revenue and the need for a balanced approach to providing tools and services. Todd and Rob also discuss the recent decrease in podcast episodes, attributing it to seasonal variations, and speculate on the impact of New Year’s resolutions on podcast creation.
The conversation shifts to the need for standardizing podcast metrics, debating the advantages and challenges of such standardization. Financial implications of industry changes, such as renewal processes and guideline development, are also discussed. They emphasize the importance of fraud prevention and the need for investment in this area.
The shift in industry terminology from “downloads” to “plays” and the evolution of advertising in the digital space are explored. They discuss the challenges of standardizing and measuring advertising effectiveness, stressing the need for trusted third-party involvement and highlighting the difficulties in measuring audience engagement.
In conclusion, they plan to update their session announcement. Todd is creating a private group for podcast discussions and inviting audience feedback.
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New Media Productions
365 N Willowbrook Rd
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Coldwater, Mi, 49036
Todd and Rob, discuss various topics related to podcasting and technology. They start by discussing the New Media Show site going to a new platform and the importance of the updates. The discussion moves to certain podcasters shifting towards selling impressions rather than downloads in podcasting, with Heather Osgood’s podcasts mentioned. They express skepticism about this change, citing concerns over impressions’ value and impact on the podcast industry.
Todd and Rob also discuss the iOS 17 update affecting podcast download counts, especially for shows with over 300 episodes. They delve into the complexities of podcast metrics and the importance of understanding audience behavior.
Additionally, they touch upon other topics like the Corporate Transparency Act requiring corporations and LLCs to disclose ownership information, the use of social media for personal information sharing, the impact of the economy on people’s spending habits, and the trend of electric vehicles. They also briefly mention the decline in podcast episodes published during the holiday season and the significance of this trend.
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New Media Productions
365 N Willowbrook Rd
Suite: C
Coldwater, Mi, 49036
Todd and Rob discussed recent research showing that podcast listeners consume audio and video podcasts, often following the same shows in both formats. They debated whether podcasting is shifting towards more video, with Todd arguing that video is still a tiny percentage of podcasting.
The conversation shifts to broader topics in the podcasting space. They touch upon recent research by Tom Webster, which suggests a unified audience for audio and video podcasts. This leads to a detailed exchange about the consumption habits of podcast audiences, the practicalities and challenges of producing video content, and the importance of catering to audio and video audiences.
They debate the merits of audio versus video podcasting, with Todd emphasizing the need for podcasters to have realistic expectations about the impact and reach of video content. Rob counters by highlighting the evolving listener preferences and the potential for video to attract a different audience segment.
There’s a discussion about the technical aspects of integrating video into podcasts, such as using HLS streaming and the complexities of embedding video content. They also discuss changes in video hosting platforms like Vimeo and the strategic considerations for podcasters choosing between different media formats.
The conversation has an underlying theme of balancing innovation and practicality in podcast production. They agree that while video offers new opportunities, it also requires a distinct approach and strategy, different from traditional audio podcasting.
Other topics included:
Todd is moving his websites to new infrastructure to upgrade technology and lower costs
Recent examples of podcasts being removed from Spotify highlight the risks of being on closed platforms
Promoting modern podcast apps that support new formats like video and allow listeners to keep shows via value-for-value
A music artist using podcasting and value-for-value to earn more from her music
The need to educate podcasters and listeners about these new opportunities beyond big platforms like YouTube
The overarching debate was whether video and new formats are the future of podcasting or a niche pursued by very few shows. They agreed content creators should understand the differences in audio vs. video audiences and strategies.
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New Media Productions
365 N Willowbrook Rd
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Coldwater, Mi, 49036
Classic New Media show where we take some time and explain in detail and demystify some explosive comments making the rounds. Todd also criticizes a YouTube hack coming out of the Podcasting 2.0 initiative. ”
Quick recap:
Todd and Rob discussed their challenges with their new media show, including technical difficulties and the need for improved audio quality, the transparency of podcast statistics, and the importance of audience demographics. Additionally, they touched upon the desire by some to shift from downloading media to streaming and the potential impact of advertising revenue on their businesses.
Summary
New Media Show Launch With Technical Challenges
Todd and Rob started their new media show, facing some initial technical difficulties with the audio processing. Todd mentioned that they had made adjustments to ensure the audio quality would be good. They also discussed a previous incident where one channel was down during recording, which Todd had resolved.
Rob and Todd discussed the challenges of the recording process for podcasters, and outdated technology. However, they acknowledged technological advancements, like the affordability of better recording tools. Rob mentioned their collaboration with companies like Nemato, hinting at potential solutions, while Todd pointed out that adopting NDI technology could simplify the process despite the cost of necessary equipment.
They also discussed using HDMI and USB as standard interfaces for online creators, with Todd expressing interest in more straightforward setup options if they were to start again.
Podcasting and YouTube Integration Debate
Todd expressed concerns about the need for an internet connection and that not all airlines allow video streaming. Rob shared their experience of watching videos on airplanes. The conversation concluded without a clear decision on whether to proceed with the integration. They also discussed the potential of podcasting 2.0 and video, with Todd expressing their concern over third parties implementing a YouTube hack.
Podcast Statistics Transparency and Standardization
Todd and Rob discussed the transparency of podcast statistics, focusing on using OP-3. Todd expressed concerns over the discrepancies in numbers between the two platforms, while Rob emphasized the importance of transparency. They discussed the importance of having a standard for podcast statistics. They agreed that any fluctuations in the numbers are likely due to factors such as bot activity and distribution platforms. They concluded that allowing podcasters to turn off public stats is essential. They also discussed Blubrry’s media kit, which provides creators with a private link to share with media buyers, updating every 24 hours.
Podcasting Metrics and Certification Discussion
They also touched upon the current dissatisfaction with the IAB, which is expensive. Todd admitted that the IAB will never be replaced by OP3, but suggested that the OP-3 could serve as a prefix for those ok with showing off their stats. They also discussed the potential shift from downloading media to streaming, affecting media delivery. Todd mentioned that despite the high cost of maintaining an IAB certification, only a tiny portion of their user base, approximately 3 to 4%, cares about the certification. They ended the discussion by discussing the Pod News Daily Show’s viewership numbers.
New Products, and Advertising Revenue
They also considered transitioning to a value4value model, which would require significant effort but could be supported by their audience. Todd and Rob discussed the potential issues with using Starlink for streaming shows and the bad idea of integrating YouTube videos into podcasting apps. They also talked about the impact of advertising revenue on their businesses and mentioned upcoming changes related to programmatic and transcripts in early 2023. They stressed that despite the current economic situation and layoffs in the podcasting space, the medium is not dying.
Media, Advertising, and Podcast Challenges
Rob and Todd discussed the struggles of media companies under current economic conditions. The conversation shifted to measuring podcast advertising, with Todd discussing a simple formula to estimate the size of a podcast audience over time. They stressed the importance of consistent data over three months to determine the audience size.
Podcasting Transparency and Advertiser Relations
Todd and Rob discussed the challenges content creators face in the podcasting industry. They highlighted the issue of transparency in the relationship between advertisers and podcasters, with advertisers often failing to provide performance metrics. Todd and Rob also reflected on past experiences in other media industries and their challenges in delivering better performance at a lower cost.
They concluded that advertisers are taking advantage of the podcasting medium without contributing to its transparency. They also discussed the limitations of the current advertising-based model, emphasizing the need for content creators to provide value to retain listeners. They highlighted the power imbalances between content creators and platforms such as Spotify and YouTube, with Todd arguing that these platforms prioritize control over content and viewer engagement over creator compensation.
Rob and Todd explored the evolving trends in advertising and podcasting. They noted the increasing sensitivity of audiences to ad loads, leading to more ads in shows or complete buyouts. They agreed on the need for an alternative to the advertising model and identified a potential alternative in the value-for-value model. Todd shared their satisfaction with their current programmatic advertising and highlighted the challenges and potential of the value-for-value model, emphasizing the need for podcasters to provide value to their audience. The conversation ended prematurely due to time constraints.
Voice Cloning and Podcast App Discussion
Todd and Rob discuss a voice cloning platform that sounds very close to Todd’s voice.
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New Media Productions
365 N Willowbrook Rd
Suite: C
Coldwater, Mi, 49036
With the number of companies laying people off and major networks reporting 7 figure losses everything may not be as well as it seems in the podcasting space. Todd and Rob engage in a lively and wide-ranging discussion about various aspects of the podcasting industry. The conversation discusses industry trends, starting with recent layoffs at Spotify. Rob suggests that the podcasting industry is undergoing a “reset,” similar to what happened around 2008-2009. They delve into the implications of these layoffs, discussing how it leads to a redistribution of talent across the industry, potentially leading to new opportunities.
Todd and Rob also discuss the financial aspects of podcasting platforms, emphasizing the challenge of sustaining a free service model. They specifically mention Spotify’s financial struggles and the potential repercussions for podcasters hosted on the platform. Rob highlights the importance of audio quality in podcast production.
The conversation moves to broader industry changes, including the shift away from guaranteed deals with talent, the importance of content quality over celebrity deals, and the evolving nature of podcast advertising. They mention the significance of the IAB (Interactive Advertising Bureau) standards for podcast metrics and how adherence to these standards impacts the industry.
Rob and Todd also touch upon the role of AI in podcasting, predicting its increasing influence in the future, particularly in enhancing audio quality and simplifying production processes. They acknowledge the potential of AI in automating certain aspects of production, but also recognize the unique challenges and nuances in audio processing that might limit its application.
Overall, the podcast episode offers valuable insights into the current state and future trends of the podcasting industry, highlighting both challenges and opportunities for podcasters and platforms alike.
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New Media Productions
365 N Willowbrook Rd
Suite: C
Coldwater, Mi, 49036
The “New Media Show” podcast episode features Rob and Todd, covering various topics relevant to the podcasting industry.
With a focus on technology in podcasting, particularly on audio quality in different recording environments. They talk about a new app that allows listeners to skip ads, diving into the technical and ethical implications of this feature, such as its effect on ad revenues and the potential legal issues it could raise for podcasters.
The conversation then shifts to the podcasting industry’s landscape, highlighting the recent decline in new episodes published around Thanksgiving and the ongoing challenges faced by various podcast platforms. They discuss the top podcast hosts and the dominance of big media companies in hosting large shows. This leads to analyzing the top podcast genres, with true crime and culture topping the list.
We also touch on the international podcast market, noting the significant difference in advertising revenue between the US and other countries like the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. We speculate on the reasons behind this disparity, such as the maturity of the markets and the influence of radio.
The discussion moves to monetizing podcasts, exploring the potential of premium podcasting tools and subscription models. We delve into the challenges and opportunities for podcasters in monetizing their content, including the impact of brand safety and suitability on advertising revenues.
The episode concludes with a broader discussion on the future of podcasting, the importance of podcasters educating their audiences about new industry developments, and the potential for more diversified revenue streams. The hosts emphasize the importance of options for podcasters in monetizing their content, whether through advertising, donations, premium content, or other methods.
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New Media Productions
365 N Willowbrook Rd
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Coldwater, Mi, 49036
James Cridland and Sam Sethi join the New Media show, engaging in a discussion about the evolving landscape of podcasting, particularly focusing on the integration of new technologies and standards such as Podcasting 2.0. They highlight the importance of adapting to advancements like alternate enclosure tags and live streaming capabilities within podcast feeds. These developments are seen as pivotal in enhancing the podcast experience by offering listeners the choice between audio and video formats and enabling live interactions through micropayments and back-channel conversations.
The conversation also touches upon podcast hosting platforms’ role and readiness to embrace these changes. They discuss the potential for platforms like StreamYard to automate live streaming integration into podcast feeds, thereby simplifying the process for podcasters. This integration could revolutionize delivering and consuming content, making podcasts more interactive and accessible.
Additionally, the dialogue shifts towards the broader context of podcasting’s growth and its relationship with radio broadcasting. Insights are shared on the gradual yet significant growth of podcast listenership, the changing habits of younger audiences, and the slow response of traditional radio to these shifts. The podcasting industry is seen as a significant and growing media segment, with its revenue contributions becoming increasingly notable for large broadcasting companies.
The podcast ultimately underscores the dynamic nature of the podcasting industry, emphasizing the need for adaptability, innovation, and the willingness to embrace new technologies to stay relevant and engaging in the ever-evolving media landscape.
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New Media Productions
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Todd and Rob, the mainstream, are already listening to podcasts! Yes, this is correct, but a portion of them have never heard a podcast, and we break it down with Tom Webster from Sounds Profitable to discuss how we get the remaining non-listeners to tune into a podcast. The conversation is pretty deep. Plus, Todd breaks the silence on a podcast you must listen to.
The podcast began with a critical look at the industry’s approach to growth and monetization, with Tom Webster emphasizing the need for a collective effort to bring in more advertisers and listeners. The conversation pivoted to the role of industry organizations and the potential need for a centralized body to coalesce various industry efforts, a sentiment echoed by Rob. There was a strong focus on the idea that more money in the industry would bring more opportunities, leading to growth and organization.
Todd discussed the everyday concerns of content creators, mainly how to attract more listeners. They explored strategies to increase podcasting awareness and encourage podcast listening, touching on the importance of engaging content and the challenges of existing promotional methods.
Tom highlighted that podcasting isn’t yet a $2 billion industry and stressed the need for more money to flow into the space. They examined the responsibilities of trade organizations and the potential benefits of an open approach to sharing industry resources.
Tom also touched on the need for the industry to take bigger risks in show development, moving away from the easy button of giving celebrities shows when they might not be suited for podcasting. He talked about the importance of podcasters understanding their audience and creating content that listeners genuinely desire.
The hosts discussed the potential of AI in podcast discovery, the importance of podcasters listening to other podcasts, especially within their genre, and the need for podcasters to clearly articulate the value proposition of their shows to their audience.
The dialogue ended with a call to podcasters to be sharper in promoting their shows and to equip their audience with language to recommend their podcasts effectively. This led to reflections on the importance of word-of-mouth for podcast discovery and growth.
The speaker’s commentary about word of mouth highlighted its critical role in podcast discovery. It was noted that word of mouth remains the primary way people discover new podcasts. Consequently, the ability to recommend a podcast—its ‘recommendability’—is vital. For a podcast to be recommendable, it must be of such quality that listeners will not regret passing it along to someone else; it must be compelling enough to stand up to the endorsement.
The conversation also addressed the personal aspect of recommendation. Since podcast listeners understand their friend’s and family’s interests, they are in a prime position to recommend podcasts that resonate with them. For instance, during a Thanksgiving dinner, if a topic arises that a podcast addresses effectively, a recommendation at that moment could be impactful. This underscores the importance of equipping listeners with the correct language and tools to recommend podcasts effectively and naturally in conversations.
Todd discussed The Marketing AI Show as an example of a recommended show as an exemplary case of a recommendable program. It was presented as an essential listen for anyone involved in business—not just those in podcasting or hosting. The show covers how AI will affect the marketing sector, addressing the tools and advancements professionals should be aware of, including some political aspects, suggesting that the content is comprehensive and touches on various relevant topics.
Todd admitted to initially keeping the podcast to themselves, humorously underscoring its value. The underlying message was that if you aim to remain competitive and informed in the business world, especially with the rapid advancements in AI, listening to the Marketing AI show is almost necessary.
The discussion suggests that the podcasting community could grow much faster by harnessing this word-of-mouth effect, emphasizing the need for content creators to craft their shows with this in mind.
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New Media Productions
365 N Willowbrook Rd
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